Judgement Day (Full)

[Ferrix]

I am quoting you on that.

Foiled! Argh...

 

[Endovior]

Continuation of the Wish spell discussion:
[sblock]

Endovior, Rkhet posted this in response to your recommendation earlier:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rkhet
SRD:

"If the additional costs put the spell’s total cost above 3,000 gp, that spell is not generally available."



That's from the same Goods and Services table of the PHB. So you'd need a DM ruling to say whether or not you can hire someone to Wish you up, because it's "not generally available."

Ack, missed that. Hmm. Presumably, by Epic level, that problem has been overcome... but the DM's word is law, as always.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Endovior
Hmm, that's another time I've seen that...

Quick note: Buying Wish spells is cheaper then buying those books.

Observe:
The price of a Wish spell: 26530 Gp (caster level * spell level * 10; from the services table in the PHB, assume a 17th level Wizard for maximum savings)
The price of 5 Wish spells (in rapid succession, presumably): 132650
The price of a +5 book: 137500
The difference: 4850 Gp

At Epic level, you probably don't care, but note that it goes up to a full 29100 Gp if you're planning on boosting all 6. And that's one more minor item in your arsenal... that just might make all the difference. Or not. Use as you will.


You know, I had a thread about this subject that almost came to blows (Fairly impressive on the net). Did you include the extra cost of the spell itself? I think an XP sucking spell costs extra (might be 1 gp per xp, but that bumps the cost up)

Of course, just forgot to mirror that in the posted formula. The correct formula is:
(Caster Level * Spell Level * 10) + (5 * XP Component) + (Material Component Cost) + (Focus Component Cost / 10 [Excluding Divine Focus])
I forgot the XP component bit. Oops. But the final value is still correct (the spell slot cost 1530 Gp, the XP cost 25000 Gp, the total is 26530).[/sblock]

 

[Bialaska]

How come that I want it to be CL x SL x 25 and not x 10 in the end?

 

[RandomPrecision]

The rule is in on sidebar on pg25 of the ELH. The FAQ ticks me off, since it directly contridicts the rules and IS NOT errata (a mistake or change to the rules). The only conclusion I can draw is that the person making the FAQ is mistaken or drawing from a source I have no access to.

I don't see any contradiction. Page 25 of the ELH is the same as what's in the FAQ.

Second paragraph (shouldn't be enough to sic the copyright police on me): "Regardless of ECL, a monster with class levels uses the base attack bonus and base save bonus progressions of its class (rather than the progression shown on Table 1-1) until it has 20 character levels. Beginning with its 21st character level, it uses the progressions shown on Table 1-1."

I didn't do that in my draft, but I'm thinking I should probably upgrade...?

 

[Wrahn]

I have had an interesting (as in bad) day, I haven't been able to finish this, but almost there:

Name: Jonas Maelent
Class: Ranger 1/Blackguard 3/Wizard 6/Loremaster 20
Race: Human
Alignment: LE
XP: 435,002

Str 28 (13 Base +6 Enhancement + 5 Inherent +4 Unnamed)
Dex 28 (13 Base +6 Enhancement + 5 Inherent +4 Unnamed)
Con 26 (13 Base +6 Enhancement + 5 Inherent +2 Unnamed)
Int 46 (18 Base +7 Level +12 Enhancement +5 Inherent +4 Unnamed)
Wis 22 (11 Base +5 Inherent +6 Enhancement)
Cha 28 (14 Base +4 Inherent +8 Enhancement +2 Unnamed)

AC 44 (10 +9 Armor, +9 Dexterity, +5 Natural Armor, +5 Deflection, +6 Shield)

BAB 12 (20)

Fort +38 (10 + 8 Con +9 Cha +5 Resistance +2 Unnamed +2 Morale +1 Luck +1 Competence)
Refl +37 (8 + 9 Dex +9 Cha +5 Resistance +2 Unnamed +2 Morale +1 Luck +1 Competence)
Will +39 (13 + 6 Wis +9 Cha +5 Resistance +2 Unnamed +2 Morale +1 Luck +1 Competence)

Class Abilities:

-Bonus Feat: Scribe Scroll
-Summon Familiar
-Bonus Feat: Quicken
-Favored Enemy: Human
-Bonus Feat: Track
-Wild Empathy
-Aura of Evil (Ex):
-Detect Good (Sp): at will
-Poison Use
-Dark Blessing (Su): Cha to saves
-Smite Good (Su): 1/day
-Aura of Despair (Su)
-Command Undead: as a 1st level Cleric
-Secrets of inner strength: +2 bonus on Will saves
-The lore of true stamina +2 bonus on Fortitude saves
-Secret knowledge of avoidance +2 bonus on Reflex saves
-Weapon trick +1 bonus on attack rolls
-Applicable knowledge Any one feat: Chain Spell
-Bonus Languages: Ignan and Abyssal
-Lore: +38 to Lore Checks
-Greater Lore: as identify
-True Lore: Analyze Dweomer or Legend Lore 1/day


Skills:
Concentration (Con) +43 (33)
Diplomacy (Cha) +24(13)
Gather Information (Cha) +44(33)
Heal (Wis) +12(4)
Hide (Dex) +29(18)
Knowledge (Arcana) +56(33)
Knowledge (Religion) +40(20)
Knowledge (The Planes) +40(20)
Knowledge(dungeoneering) (Int) +30(10)
Knowledge (geography) (Int) +30(10)
Knowledge (nature) (Int) +30(10)
Knowledge (Nobility) (Int) +26(6)
Listen (Wis) +12(4)
Move Silently (Dex) +15(4)
Perform (Dance) (Cha) +20(9)
Search (Int) +24(4)
Spot (Wis) +38(30)
Spellcraft (Int) +53(33)
Swim (Str) +15(4)
Use Magic Device (Cha) +44(33)

Feats:
Track, Maximize Spell, Skill Focus: Knowledge (Arcana), Scribe Scroll, Power Attack, Quicken Spell,Sunder, Cleave, Practiced Spellcaster, Twin Spell, Chain Spell, Spell Penetration, Widen Aura of Despair, Improved Spell Capacity, Enhance Spell, Multispell, Improved Metamagic (x3)


Equipment:
390,000 Amuletof Clutha’nae: Continuous Persistent Greater Visage of the Diety (evil) (CL26)
210,000 Gloves of Eisen: Continuous Persistent Divine Power (CL 21)
687,500 5 books +5
110,000 Charisma book +4

90,000 Belt of Prowess: Enhancement +6 Con and +6 Dex
50,000 Ring of Protection +5
1,494,000 Headband of Intellect +12 Enhancement to Int, +6 to Wisdom
297,000 Rod of Epic Splendor
61,000 Cloak of Resistance +5 and continuous Heroism (CL4)
100,000 Bracers of Armor +1, Heavy Fortification and Soulfire
30,000 Stone of Competence (as Ioun stone)
20,000 Luckstone
123,000 Dyrr’s Impervious Coat
20,000 Ring of Arcane Might
650,000 Rod of Excellent Magic
50,000 Boccob’s Blessed Book (x4) (two sets of spellbooks)
101,200 Mithral Animated Buckler +5 of Arrow deflection and Blinding
200,000 Mirror of Mental Prowess
28,825 Scroll of Genesis (used)
24,000 The Third Eye of Kalim: Continuous Blindsight (lenses slot)
50,000 Shirt of Natural Armor +5
26,530 Prepaid true resurrection


86,425 (all the spells in the players handbook plus the spells listed below)
14,665 Focus for Shapeshift, Mordenkainen’s Sword, Contingency, Mordenkainen’s Magnificent Mansion, Legend Lore, Analyze Dweomer, Magic Jar, Leomund’sSecret Chest, Rary’s Mnemonic Enhancer, and Scrying
14,650 Spell Components for Astral Projection (x2), True Seeing (x10), Force Cage (x5), Stoneskin (x10),

71,205gp Unspent

Spell book (all spells in the Players Handbook plus)
0. No Light (BoVD pg)
1. Bestow Wounds (BoVD pg), Resist Planar Alignment (PH), Low Light Vision (SS), Spell Flower (SS),
2. Scent (CD pg178), Masochism (BoVD pg), Sadism (BoVD pg) Dark bolt (BoVD pg), Wither Limb (BoVD pg), Mechanus Mind (PH), Blind sight (SS), Cloud Wings (SS)
3. Devil’s Eye (BoVD pg), Eyes of the Zombie (BoVD pg), Glimpse of the Truth (BoVD pg), Drown (BoVD pg), Wall of Chains (BoVD pg), Evil Eye (BoVD pg), Cruel Disappointment (BoVD pg), Curse of the Putrid Husk (BoVD pg), Reality Bind (BoVD pg), Spell Vulnerability (PH), Sound Lance (SS), Sign of Sealing (CA), Bands of Steel (CA), Mage Armor, Greater (CA),
4. Wrack (CD pg190), Damning Darkness (BoVD pg), Mirror Sending (BoVD pg), Grim Revenge (BoVD pg), Infernal Wounds (PH), Earth Reaver (SS), Improved Blind sight (SS), Weapon of Energy (SS), Orb of Force (CA), Orb of Sound (CA), Otiluke’s Dispelling Screen (CA), Assay Resistance (CA),
5. Blink, Improved (CD pg154), Dragon Breath (CD pg 164), Soul Shackle (BoVD pg), Stop Heart (BoVD pg), Planar Tolerance (PH), Opalescent Glare (PH), Cacophonic Burst (SS), Freezing Fog (CA),
6.Probe Thoughts (CD pg176), False Sending (BoVD pg), Seal Portal (PH), Wall of Gears (PH), Rary’s Interplanar Telepathic Bond (PH), Dream Casting (SS), Transfix (CA)
7. Wall of Eyes (BoVD pg), Barghest’s Feast (PH), Energy Immunity (CA), Ghost form (CA),
8. Bestow Greater Curse (CD pg 152), Steal Life (BoVD pg), Soul’s Treasure Lost (BoVD pg), Planeshift, Greater (PH), Anticipate Teleport, Great (CA),
9. Utterdark (BoVD pg), Mindrape (BoVD pg), Vile Death (SS), Absorption (CA), Reaving Dispel (CA), Sphere of Ultimate Destruction (CA), Programmed Amnesia (CA), Superior Invisibility (CA), Transmute Rock to Lava (CA)

Spells:

4/9/9/8/8/8/8/7/7/7/4 CL 31 Saves DC =28 + spell level

0. No Light,
1.
2.
3. (Maximized) Scorching Ray,
4. (Quickened) Sadism, (Quickened) Spell Vulnerability
5. (Quicken, Chained) Bands of Steel
6. (Quicken, Chained) Wrack, (Quickened) Teleport, (Quicken, Chain, Maximize) Sound Lance,
7. Barghest's Feast, (Quickened, Twinned, Maximized, Enhanced) Fireball, (Quicken, Chained, Maximized, Twinned) Sound Lance, (Chained) Transfix
8. Limited Wish, (Quickened) Delayed Blast Fireball, (Maximized, Quickened, Twinned) Cacophonic Burst, Greater Anticipate Teleport, Mind Blank, Horrid Wilting, (Quickened, Twinned, Chained, Enhanced, Maximized) Sound Lance
9. (Quickened) Greater Bestow Curse, (Quickened) Horrid Wilting, (Quickened) Maze, Superior Invisibility, Shapeshift, Mindrape, (Enhanced, Maximized) Delayed Blast Fireball
10. (Quickened)Reaving Dispel, (Quickened) Mordenkainen’s Disjunction, (Maximized)Timestop, (Quickened) Imprisonment

Spells Cast permanently on self:

Arcane Sight, Comprehend Language, Darkvision, Read Magic, See Invisible, Tongues, Resistance

Cast on Shield Permanently:

Invisibility

XP cost absorbed by Rod of Excellent Magic

Contigency: When killed teleports to the temple of () where a prepaid true resurrection will be cast

 

[James Heard]

Ok, I'm still having MAJOR computer problems that are affecting my ability to connect to the internet - but since I got this far and I'm optimistic that I'll finalize my solutions for my router by tonight (and get to finish this sucker) I'm going to post what I have. Waaaay work in progress, obviously I'm going to game out what I'm actually gaining by progressing my druid levels with the FL PrC and if that doesn't make any sense I'm going some other direction with the character.

Name

Human
NG Medium Humanoid
Init (+ Dex,+ 4 Improved Initiative)Senses Listen Spot
Languages Common, Druidic
-------------------------------------------
AC (), touch, flatfooted
hp base (30 HD)
Immune Resist SR
Fort + Ref + Will +
-------------------------------------------
Speed 30 ft
Melee
Ranged
Base Atk Grp
Atk Options
Special Actions Sneak Attack, bardic music, Sublime Chord music
Combat Gear
Druid Spells Prepared (CL 10th)
Bard Spells Known (CL 20th)
Sublime Chord Spells Known (CL 20th)
------------------------------------------
Abilities Str 14 (+) Dex 15 (+) Con 16 (+) Int 14 (+) Wis 14 (+) Cha 20 (+)
SQ Animal companion, nature sense, wild empathy, trapfinding, trap sense +2, evasion, uncanny dodge,

unbound, bardic knowledge
Feats Able Learner, Improved Initiative, Versatile Performer, Leadership, Extra Followers, Skill Focus: Perform,

Disguise Spell, Practiced Spellcaster: Bard, Epic Skill Focus: Perform, Epic Leadership, Reactive Countersong,

Legendary Commander
Skills Bluff(Cha) ³⁰, Concentration(Con) ¹⁰, Decipher Script(Int) ⁷,

Diplomacy(Cha) ³⁰, Gather Information(Cha) ²⁷, Intimidate(Cha) ⁴, Knowledge:

Arcana(Int) ¹³, Knowledge: Nature(Int) ⁷, Listen ¹³, Perform: String(Cha) ³³,

Profession: Astrologer(Wis) ⁶, Search(Int) ¹⁰, Sleight of Hand(Dex) ⁷, Spellcraft(Int)

⁶, Spot(Wis) ³⁰, Survival(Wis) ¹⁰, Tumble(Dex) ³⁰
Possessions combat gear plus
------------------------------------------
[smallcaps]Build Notes[/smallcaps]
Human Traits

1 extra feat at 1st level, 4 extra skill points at 1st level and 1 extra skill point at each additional level​

Abilities

Str 14 (Base 8 + 6^{6 points})
Dex 15 (Base 8 + 6^{6 points} + 1^{Ability Increase})
Con 16 (Base 8 + 8^{10 points})
Int 14 (Base 8 + 6^{6 points})
Wis 14 (Base 8 + 6^{6 points})
Cha 20 (Base 8 + 6^{6 points} + 6^{Ability Increases})
​

Level/Feat Breakdown

1. Bard1 Bardic music, bardic knowledge, countersong, fascinate, inspire courage +1
   Able Learner^{Races of Destiny}, Improved Initiative^B
2. Druid1 Animal companion, nature sense, wild empathy
3. Rogue1 Sneak attack +1d6, trapfinding
   Versatile Performer^{Complete Adventurer}
4. Rogue2 Evasion
5. Rogue3 Sneak attack +2d6, trap sense +1
6. Rogue4 Uncanny dodge
   Leadership
7. Rogue5 Sneak attack +3d6
8. Rogue6 Trap sense +2
9. Rogue7 Sneak attack +4d6
   Extra Followers^{Heroes of Battle}
10. Rogue8 Improved Uncanny Dodge
11. Fochlucan Lyrist1 Bardic knowledge, bardic music, unbound, +1/+1 spellcasting
12. Fochlucan Lyrist2 +1/+1 spellcasting
    Skill Focus: Perform
13. Fochlucan Lyrist3 +1/+1 spellcasting
14. Fochlucan Lyrist4 +1/+1 spellcasting
15. Fochlucan Lyrist5 +1/+1 spellcasting
    Disguise Spell^{Complete Adventurer}
16. Fochlucan Lyrist6 +1/+1 spellcasting
17. Fochlucan Lyrist7 +1/+1 spellcasting
18. Fochlucan Lyrist8 +1/+1 spellcasting
    Practiced Spellcaster: Bard^{Complete Arcane}
19. Fochlucan Lyrist9 +1/+1 spellcasting
20. Virtuoso1 Bardic music, fascinate, virtuoso performance (persuasive song)
21. Sublime Chord1 Bardic lore, bardic music
    Epic Skill Focus: Perfom^E
22. Sublime Chord2 Song of arcane power
23. Sublime Chord3
24. Sublime Chord4
    Epic Leadership^E
25. Sublime Chord5
26. Sublime Chord6 Song of timelessness
27. Sublime Chord7
    Reactive Countersong^E
28. Sublime Chord8
29. Sublime Chord9
30. Sublime Chord10 Song of cosmic fire
    Legendary Commander^E

Skills Breakdown
Bard1: 36 + Druid1: 7 + Rogue8: 88 + Fochlucan Lyrist9: 63 + Virtuoso1: 9 + Sublime Chord10: 70
Total Skill Points: 273
Skill List^{All skills are class skills w/max ranks of 33}:
Bluff(Cha) 30
Concentration(Con) 10
Decipher Script(Int) 7
Diplomacy(Cha) 30
Gather Information(Cha) 17
Intimidate(Cha) 4
Knowledge: Arcana(Int) 13
Knowledge: Nature(Int) 7
Listen 13
Perform: String(Cha) 33
Profession: Astrologer 6
Search(Int) 10
Sleight of Hand(Dex) 7
Spellcraft(Int) 6
Spot(Wis) 30
Survival(Wis) 20
Tumble(Dex) 30
Total Skill Points Spent: 273

Spellcasting
Druid 10 (as CL 10)
Bard 10 (as CL 20)
Sublime Chord 10 (CL 20)

Spells Known/Prepared
Bard Spells
6/4/4/4/2
4th (0/day) Unluck^{Complete Arcane}, Greater Invisibility
3rd (2/day) Harmonic Chorus^{Complete Adventurer}, Gaseous Form, Crushing Despair, Good Hope
2nd (3/day) Insidious Rhythym^{Complete Adventurer}, Mirror Image, Heroism, Glitterdust
1st (3/day) Distort Speech^{Complete Adventurer}, Joyful Noise^{Complete Adventurer}, Whirling

Blade^{Complete Arcane}
0 (3/day) Ghost Sound, Lullaby, Prestidigitation, Summon Instrument, Mending, Mage Hand

Sublime Chord Spells
-/-/-/-/4/4/4/4/3/2
9th (2/day) Mordenkainen's Disjunction, Wish
8th (3/day) Polymorph Any Object, Moment of Prescience, Discern Location
7th (3/day) Greater Teleport, Plane Shift, Sequester, Energy Immunity^{Complete Arcane},
6th (4/day) Undeath to Death, Otto's Irresistable Dance, Greater Shout, Chain Lightning
5th (4/day) Mind Fog, Reciprocal Gyre^{Complete Arcance}, Wall of Force, Feeblemind
4th (5/day) Wall of Fire, Solid Fog, Bestow Curse, Lesser Globe of Invulnerability
Druid Spells Prepared
Roleplaying Hooks
​

 

[Pyrex]

Arr matey, that be making me 'ead hurt.

Why the ranger level?

DM Question: What are the accepted bounds for custom items? Thusfar everything I've purchased has come straight out of the SRD, but that could change...

 

[Wrahn]

I don't see any contradiction. Page 25 of the ELH is the same as what's in the FAQ.

Second paragraph (shouldn't be enough to sic the copyright police on me): "Regardless of ECL, a monster with class levels uses the base attack bonus and base save bonus progressions of its class (rather than the progression shown on Table 1-1) until it has 20 character levels. Beginning with its 21st character level, it uses the progressions shown on Table 1-1."

I didn't do that in my draft, but I'm thinking I should probably upgrade...?

Here is the point:

When is a monster character considered epic level? Do you “go epic” when your total class levels equal 20 or when your total Hit Dice equal 20? Is a monster character eligible for epic-level feats (such as Epic Toughness) when its character level is 21+ or when its ECL is 21+? A monster becomes an epic-level character when its character level hits 21, just like any other character. A monster’s character level is equal to its racial Hit Dice + class levels. (See the second sidebar on page 25 of the Epic Level Handbook.)
A creature’s ECL has no effect on when it becomes an epic character, although once it becomes an epic character, its ECL continues to affect how much experience it earns and when it can add a new level.

Versus

the paraphrase from ELH:

In places where "character level" is used, you can used effective character level instead ex: 13 fighter/3 Blackguard with a level adjust of +5 is ECL 21 and eligible to select an epic feat.

This is exactly contridictory and even references the rules it is misinterpreting

 

[Wrahn]

Arr matey, that be making me 'ead hurt.

Why the ranger level?

LOL, does everyone ask that? He is suppose to be a little bit of a warrior and ranger seems to be a good fit.

I know you have looked at other characters I have made and your head stayed intact, this is pretty simple in comparison

 

[RandomPrecision]

I guess I still don't see it...it's like staring at one of those Magic Eye things and waiting for the image to reveal itself. The thing is, it was said earlier in this thread that when one's ECL reaches 21, that character is epic, and now uses the epic attack bonus, epic save bonuses, and so forth. However, both the ELH and the FAQ say that character levels, not ECL, is used to determine epicness in this regard. That is, my half-fiend character shouldn't use the epic tables until he has 20 levels in classes, since the half-fiend template doesn't grant racial HD.

My character is ECL 20 after 16 class levels, and from what I read earlier in this thread, that's when I started using the epic bonuses. However, since all sources indicate the opposite, I'm thinking that I should redo my attack and save bonuses such that I have 20 class levels before adding the epic modifiers.

Now, of course, the Dungeon Master's Guide contradicts the ELH and the FAQ. So I don't know, I'll wait for a DM, I guess.

Human characters without a template? How...simple. Elegant.