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Judgement Day (Full)

RandomPrecision

First Post
I had a call at 1:16 am a few mornings ago explaining that my brother lost a leg in a hit-and-run accident, but I can probably have my character up sometime within the next day or so. Other time-consuming things are also going away, so I have more time where I should be able to finish the character sheet...the primary thing is reformatting it so it becomes readable to the untrained eye.
 

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Pyrex

First Post
Ferrix said:
Justification my friend, all about justification.

Right, but to some extent you have to toss that out the window in an environment where [Evil] is a measureable, quantifiable force.

In all the standard settings, not only can you unequivocally state that individual X is [Evil], you can also show that X is more (or less) [Evil] than Y.
 

Ferrix

Explorer
Pyrex said:
Right, but to some extent you have to toss that out the window in an environment where [Evil] is a measureable, quantifiable force.

In all the standard settings, not only can you unequivocally state that individual X is [Evil], you can also show that X is more (or less) [Evil] than Y.

Agreed, although when it comes to self-reflection, justification plays a large role. People may say you are an evil person, but that doesn't mean you believe them or agree with them and may see yourself in a different light. Although, I'd admit that anyone with a decent ability to be self-reflective should be able to realize that what they are doing purposefully harms others, etc.
 

Kerrz

First Post
Pyrex said:
In all the standard settings, not only can you unequivocally state that individual X is [Evil], you can also show that X is more (or less) [Evil] than Y.
Actually in Eberron, alignment does not dictate actions. It's right up there in the start, saying that alignment is essentially bunk.

For example, Kaius III, Vampire and lord of Karrnath is LE. He is also a great proponent of peace in the realms, and is trying to redeem himself from his unwanted vampirism. He is LE because he is a vampire and must drink blood to survive, not because of how he acts as a person or whatnot.

On the other hand, the greatest paladin of the Silver Flame will be LG, but he might kill Goblin Babies and think himself doing great good. He is LG because he is a paladin and must follow a moral code. However, his moral code is questionable.

The actions dictate alignment, but the alignment does not dictate the actions. What you choose to do changes who you are, but who you have been up to a point does not limit you from changing.

(It's alot of ambiguity. That's what morality is about.)
 

Pyrex

First Post
Alignement never dictates actions. Alignment is a general description of how someone tends to act. Or, put differently, your alignment is the *sum* of your actions.

If an evil creature stops doing evil things and starts doing good things their alignment will eventually shift to good.

However, that doesn't refute my point that in D&D you can unequivocally state that X is more evil than Y. It's quite easy to do with a Detect Evil spell.
 



Kerrz

First Post
Your skills and equipment did not take 35 days to do. Let's get to this folks. I know my character is flawed and he is going to die first, so let's let the death begin!
 

Wrahn

First Post
Pyrex said:
Alignement never dictates actions. Alignment is a general description of how someone tends to act. Or, put differently, your alignment is the *sum* of your actions.

If an evil creature stops doing evil things and starts doing good things their alignment will eventually shift to good.

However, that doesn't refute my point that in D&D you can unequivocally state that X is more evil than Y. It's quite easy to do with a Detect Evil spell.

You can be evil and not be a raving lunatic or even view yourself as evil. Harkuf certainly doesn't think of himself as evil, though he is direct responsible for the destruction of a civilization. To him it was only justice. He acknowledges the fact that others may view him as evil, even vile, perhaps even the gods themselves, but he believes what he has done is justified.

When you cast a detect evil spell and it comes back evil, what exactly is that saying about a person. A casual disregard for life? That is usually one of the strongest indicators of evil, but don't all adventurers at some level have a disregard for life? Going in and wiping out the orc horde isn't exactly reverence of life.

A lust for power? Well I don't think Elminster became incredibly powerful by accident, he set out to acquire knowledge and power and he isn't evil (I think, I don't play in the FR and never have)

Because peoples view of evil are not the same, when you enter the realm of complex characters with complex motivations such as the PCs, such terms tend to break down. *I* believe Harkuf is evil, he doesn't believe himself to be.

Ultimately morality in D&D is fine for simplistic things, it makes breaking into being's homes, killing them and taking their stuff a lot easier to justify. (Have you killed anyone? Yes, but they were all bad. To quote True Lies)
 

gabrion

First Post
Albedo said:
So, are we going to be able to pull up some more good PCs here or what? I would like to get at least 3.

Twiddles thumbs....

(I'm still chillin in case people don't show up. Just let me know if I'm needed)
 

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