Judicious use and description of Minions [Edit-Now asking for stat analysis]

[shadowguidex]

I personally use minions in the same way they are used in action movies. Everybody knows Darth Vader isn't hiding in with the stormtroopers wearing similar white armor. He's the BBEG in the back with the dark black armor and clearly above and beyond the other monsters. I think, that do do anything else but highlight non-elites, is very uninspired use of a sweet mechanic.

I will always intend to make it obvious that my minions are cannon fodder. They aren't the fight, they are an obstacle, so make them clearly an obstacle. Heroes fight their way through the minions to get to the real bad guys, this is echoed in every single action/adventure movie ever made. Indiana Jones never has a problem knowing who the real bad guys are. Even in real life, soldiers and officers are clearly different one can ascertain the difference.

DMs who try to hide or confuse the lines between minions and other monsters are really doing a disservice to their games.

Edit: small caveat - if the normal non-minions are Lurkers or maybe skirmishers, then some obfuscation is definitely useful, but if the non-minions are Soldiers, Brutes, Artillery, etc (especially Leaders), then they need to be made distinctly different in flavor - whether you explicitly state: These are minioins, these are not..that's up to the DM, but do not just put 10 figures out there and fail to describe each different monster type.

 

[2eBladeSinger]

Note that the skeleton and zombie minions in the MM are pretty explicitly called out as being more decayed/rotted whatever than the regular kind.

No, I didn't remember that. But it does say all goblin mooks are armed with leather armor and short swords. The DM reserves the right to change mundane equipment and the degree of 'rottedness' of individual monsters.

 

[AntiPaladin]

Roll a knowledge check, perhaps a success allows the player to know if it is a minion.

In the game I run, it is obviously clear what is a minion since I use paper cut-outs for the minions and plastic minis for the regular guys. But I'm still a big fan of knowledge checks and I think that revealing minion status that way is good compromise between submersion and meta-tactics.

 

[Xzylvador]

One single knowledge check is enough to readily know what monsters have the "minion" keyword and which don't. It should most definatly be known.
Fluff-wise, any experienced adventurer should be able to tell the difference between the weak cannon-fodder wielding pointy sticks or rusted sword and wearing shreds of armor, and the muscled well-equipped brute behind them shouting that they'll all get killed if they don't attack.

 

[Aust Diamondew]

What if the minion is a Devil Legionarrie, a Angel of Valor or a Hobgoblin warrior?

All of which are described as being well trained, well equiped opponents with good morale?

 

[Roxlimn]

I think Insight or Perception checks would be more appropriate.

 

[Palladion]

PH 180, Monster Knowledge Checks: "Success: You identify a creature as well as its type, typical temperament, and keywords..." and on the chart, "Name, type, and keywords". MM 4-6 describes what you should tell your players. Usually the name of the creature should give away whether or not it is a minion (i.e. "grunt", "thug", "weak-@$$ punk", etc.), heck, the "kobold minion" name (MM 167) should give it away. This should give the players a reasonable chance to identify a creature, without the DM blatantly saying "This is a minion, do not hit with a daily power."

Side note: If the players do not pick up on this, give their characters a reasonable chance. After they waste an encounter or daily power on a minion, let them know.

Hope that helps...

 

[misanthrope]

PH 180, Monster Knowledge Checks: "Success: You identify a creature as well as its type, typical temperament, and keywords..." and on the chart, "Name, type, and keywords". MM 4-6 describes what you should tell your players. Usually the name of the creature should give away whether or not it is a minion (i.e. "grunt", "thug", "weak-@$$ punk", etc.), heck, the "kobold minion" name (MM 167) should give it away. This should give the players a reasonable chance to identify a creature, without the DM blatantly saying "This is a minion, do not hit with a daily power."

Side note: If the players do not pick up on this, give their characters a reasonable chance. After they waste an encounter or daily power on a minion, let them know.

Hope that helps...

I created an account specifically to reply to this post.

Why would you intentionally make your post difficult to read?

Edit: Oh...and if you bother to reply, please post in a color scheme that won't overly tax these old eyes.

 

[The Black Sword]

For this I'm on the other side of the fence. My players to find out whether they are minions should either hear the discription, make a knowledge check or check by trial and error. Even with Knowledge check, I definitely won't tell them the name but I will describe them as clearly a weak target than others around.

 

[Soel]

I'm leaning the other way. Only having played, and not dmed 4e yet, I feel that revealing the minions for what they are may lead to a repetitous combat sequence when they're in play. This could totally take away the cinematic feel they're supposed to add.

As a player, I don't want to know, I like the surprise of dropping something in one hit.