Jumping While Charging - Long v. High Jump; also, Charging on Stairs Question

[Atavar]

Hello Everyone,

I read what the FAQ has to say on this, but I am still confused on one point. The jump rules say that a jumper attains some amount of vertical height during the process of performing a long jump (like the peak of their arching through the air). I also understand from the FAQ (p. 54) that one can use a long jump while charging, for example, to jump over difficult terrain. However, can one also use the altitude one gains as a side effect of the long jump to make an attack against an opponent that is, say, hovering too high to hit otherwise?

For example, a beholder is hovering at an altitude of 10 ft. (i.e. two empty 5-ft. squares between him and the ground). The fighter, stuck on the ground, wants to charge the beholder. He wants to run toward the beholder, jumping at the right moment so that, as a side effect of his long jump, he attains an altitude of 5 ft. right next to the beholder, at which point he will attack the beholder with his charge attack.

Can the fighter do that? My argument is no, he cannot, because he is effectively changing direction from a 3-D perspective to make such an attack, and one cannot normally change direction during a charge. My players argue otherwise, though, so I wanted some other opinions.

Also, just to confirm, one can NOT charge by using part of his charge to move to the top of a flight of stairs and the rest of his charge to move down the stairs to his opponent, correct? Even if you are moving in a "straight" line on the battle grid from a 2-D perspective, you are actually changing direction and no longer moving in a straight line from a 3-D perspective. Do I have that all correct?

Thanks,

Atavar

 

[havoclad]

Per the RAW, I don't think this is allowed.

I'd probably allow it if the PC had the Spring Attack feat or something similar.

It'd also be something I'd allow an action point to be used for.

Hello Everyone,

I read what the FAQ has to say on this, but I am still confused on one point. The jump rules say that a jumper attains some amount of vertical height during the process of performing a long jump (like the peak of their arching through the air). I also understand from the FAQ (p. 54) that one can use a long jump while charging, for example, to jump over difficult terrain. However, can one also use the altitude one gains as a side effect of the long jump to make an attack against an opponent that is, say, hovering too high to hit otherwise?

For example, a beholder is hovering at an altitude of 10 ft. (i.e. two empty 5-ft. squares between him and the ground). The fighter, stuck on the ground, wants to charge the beholder. He wants to run toward the beholder, jumping at the right moment so that, as a side effect of his long jump, he attains an altitude of 5 ft. right next to the beholder, at which point he will attack the beholder with his charge attack.

Can the fighter do that? My argument is no, he cannot, because he is effectively changing direction from a 3-D perspective to make such an attack, and one cannot normally change direction during a charge. My players argue otherwise, though, so I wanted some other opinions.

Also, just to confirm, one can NOT charge by using part of his charge to move to the top of a flight of stairs and the rest of his charge to move down the stairs to his opponent, correct? Even if you are moving in a "straight" line on the battle grid from a 2-D perspective, you are actually changing direction and no longer moving in a straight line from a 3-D perspective. Do I have that all correct?

Thanks,

Atavar

 

[Legildur]

What exactly is a running start for a jump anyway? From the Jump skill in the SRD:

All Jump DCs given here assume that you get a running start, which requires that you move at least 20 feet in a straight line before attempting the jump. If you do not get a running start, the DC for the jump is doubled.

Distance moved by jumping is counted against your normal maximum movement in a round.

I read this to be a hustle (normal movement), rather than using the Run full-round action, but I wouldn't mind some other opinions to be sure.

On the OP's question, since you can't stop movement in mid-air (which is what you would need to do on a charge), then I say that a charge isn't possible. However, as Havoclad suggests, the Spring Attack feat could overcome that on a normal attack.

Mind you, with my current character, this isn't really a problem as he can reach and attack creatures up to 30ft off the ground (half-orc spiked chain wielding cleric with domain casting of Enlarge Person).

 

[kk14]

Couldn't he just make a jumping charge? I believe that is an action.

 

[Sithobi1]

You normally can't jump during a charge, but the Leap Attack feat permits it.

 

[hong]

Yes, you can jump as part of a charge. I asked this before; it's in the FAQ.

 

[Atavar]

I know you can jump during a charge. I know it's in the FAQ. My original post states this clearly.

I am asking more specific details on what can be accomplished during a jump/charge combo. For these details, please refer to my original post.

Thanks,

Atavar

 

[LostSoul]

The requirements for a charge are that he travels in a straight line, right? And movement ends at the end of the charge.

So this makes me think that it would be okay if the jump ended while he's still in mid-air. To do this, I guess you'd need to time your jump right so that you got the needed vertical height but didn't have enough movement to finish the jump.

 

[Atavar]

That's what I was thinking as well, LostSoul. It also would make someone with the spring attack feat better able to do the maneuver since he can move before and after his attack.

That all assumes, however, that the action is legal to begin with. The way I picture it, he is not moving in a straight line. He moves in a straight line along the ground, and then effectively changes direction as he gains altitude during his jump.

I know the FAQ says that the long jump doesn't really violate the straight line requirement, but to me that is speaking to the intended use of a long jump--to jump over something (like difficult terrain) to reach your target. I am not convinced that the altitude-gaining side-effect of a long jump should be used as a loophole to attack a combatant floating off of the ground (that is what a fly speed is for).

Thanks,

Atavar

 

[Dross]

To make things slightly trickier:

If you perform a jump that moves you further than your max move for the round, are you not considered to "hang" in the air" until your next action.

If all the conditions were thus meant, could you still jump-charge?