Just Not Feelin' It...

[WayneLigon]

The PS3, like most consoles, is made in response to consumer demand for better graphics, better processing power for smoother gameplay, and support for newer technologies like HDTV.

D&D doesn't need a new edition so often to stay competetive or relevant.

I see a more direct correlation. The consumers for D&D want almost the same things. Upgrades to better ways of doing things; in this case, fixes for rules we've found don't work as well, better ways to run encounters, better ways to do classes and magic. Smoother gameplay. Support for new rules and gaming concepts.

That last is important. At one point, it seems that people were almost suprised that players wanted wilderness and town adventures as well as dungeon adventures. Then that became the norm. Consumers expressed an interest in something, and product was created to meet that demand.

It may not need an edition change as fast as a console changes, but it does need changing, and this is a major reason why.

 

[Henry]

I dunno, I'm just not feelin' D&D in general and 4E in particular...

I'm not going to run around ranting and raving and saying I'll never buy another WotC product or that I'll boycott 4E. Rather, I kinda feel like just letting it go.

I dunno, maybe it's just time to move on.

It's probably been mentioned, but if you have a group to play with, and if they're OK with the current edition, why would you move on from D&D (or gaming in general if that's what you meant)? Ask Diaglo about keeping up with previous editions - it's the new hotness these days.

I'm in a similar boat, based on the snippets of "what it's like" I'm hearing from WotC designers and developers. Perhaps when it gets here I'll jump in, but right now, it's less of what I want, and more of what I don't want. I plan to play a character soon who has "per encounter" balancing (a Crusader, to be specific), to see if I like it more than I do now, but it's not something I'm looking forward to now. I will keep an open mind, but depending on how my group receives it, I may stick with a previous edition of D&D, or maybe even something like Castles and Crusades, for my fantasy D&D kicks.

 

[DItheringFool]

Well, what were you looking for from people here?

I think the guy is looking for what I am looking for - a sympathetic soul. Why does this feel so painful? I don't know why but it still hurts.

Dude, I feel your pain. Seriously. It's silly and irrational, but it feels like helplessness and mourning.

What do you do? Stick to your guns. Hold out as long as you can and see what happens.

If you live in the North Dallas area you can join our 3.5 games - we have years of material!

 

[StupidSmurf]

Just some random points/observations:

1. Although I have nothing to back this up, I have a gut feeling that the resistance to the new system will be proportionately greater among veteran D&Ders than it has been for any previous change to a new edition. (Did that come out right?)

2. People who decide to buy 4E are not automatically branded as suckers or mindless fanboys/girls.

3. People who decide NOT to buy 4E aren't automatically branded as losers.

4. People who are not thriled by this change have a need to vent, and sometimes, a forum like this is a good place to do so. Just having the electronic equivalent of throwing open a window and yelling, shaking a fist at the heavens, then moving on.

5. WotC needs to stay in business....as a former gaming freelancer, I understand this all too well. I just wish they chose a different way to get those funds, like, say, oh I don't know, coming out with more product for existing settings? This is the best they could do? Redesign the system? Knights of the Dinner Table turns out to be more truthful than anyone ever expected.

6. Our group wrapped up our 3.5 Forgotten Realms campaign in late Spring, and we decided to take a D&D hiatus until this November, then resume with a brand-new group of characters. Until then, if we manage to get together to game despite an unusually busy summer, we'll do some Paranoia, Call of Cthulhu, and Shadowrun...maybe card game it with Munchkin. When the campaign resumes, it'll be 3.5, and as many have observed, there's enough material out for decades' worth of playing.

7. With the death of Dungeon and Dragon magazines, another connection between myself and the people who churn out D&D is broken. The release of 4E will drive that point home even harder. I think I could actually stop buying any more D&D-related gaming product and be satisfied. "Official" material, "Up to date" material, well, just doesn't seem to mean as much anymore, at least in this neck of the woods. We'll keep playing 3.5, thanks. Thus far, our group has met the news of 4E's release with eye-rolling and head-shaking.

8. I've read up on 4E and see some of the things that are ostensibly being corrected. Too many monster stats? Personally, I solved that problem simply by not listing all of the gol-durned stats when I write up an adventure (something I'm sure a legion of other DMs have done). Too many rules? Sure, all at once. Bringing in a newbie isn't that hard, if you just limit things to the fundamentals (again, I'm positive this is old news to many).


Far as I'm concerned, 4E is coming too soon. My library of 3.0/3.5 is extensive, but considering it meant that as a DM I was in the know and current and on top of things, it was acceptable. Now, in order to be "in the know" with the latest, I have to start all over again?

No thanks! It's no longer so important to be current. If it ain't broke, don't fix it...and as far as our group is concerned, 3.5 ain't broke.

That's my ten cents' worth, anyhoo...

 

[GreatLemur]

"Play something else" (for a while at least) is a good anodyne for burn-out.

This is very true. Leaving D&D is hardly the end of roleplaying games for somebody. There are so many fascinating, varied, sometimes deeply unusual games out there that it almost seems like a shame to stick with the same one for very long, anyway. Personally, I'm starting to get really interested in the incredibly-well-reviewed Spirit of the Century, and I wish I had the time for it in the middle of the other games I'm playing and running.

 

[Storm Raven]

Well, perhaps it is not an ideal comparison. My point was that a games core rules don't have to be regularly updated for it to be fun and playable. I could still sit down to a game of 1E AD&D or Basic D&D and still have a fun, perfectly playable game. That was the point I was trying to emphasize.

While chess has not changed in a couple hundred years, prior to that, it went through at least a thousand years of evolution. I'd imagine that when D&D has a thousand years under its belt, the rules might be refined enough to stay constant for centuries too.

And the rules to many board games do change. My daughter has a copy of Life that has very different rules from the version that I had as a kid. Many other popular board games have been modified similarly. Saying "board games don't change" just doesn't hold water. Some board games have not changed in years. Many others have.

 

[Templeton580]

*

 

[WizarDru]

I just wish they chose a different way to get those funds, like, say, oh I don't know, coming out with more product for existing settings? This is the best they could do?

Yes, I expect it is. Product setting material sells relatively poorly in comparison to other books, and supplements sell relatively poorly in comparison to core rule books. This has been true for a long time. The market for a new PHB is vast. The market for the next Eberron book...markedly less. The market for the next Magic of Incarnum or Book of Nine Swords, smaller still. Further, this is kind of a 'damned if you, damned if you don't' situation for them. A cursory search of this board will find plenty of folks who think that any Monster Manual with a number after the name is an attempt at a cash-in by WotC, for example. When you consider that the PHB is the best selling D&D book of all time by a considerable margin, it makes sense economically. The debate is really more of a discussion of whether not it makes sense mechanically, which people have different answers to.

7. With the death of Dungeon and Dragon magazines, another connection between myself and the people who churn out D&D is broken. The release of 4E will drive that point home even harder.

I can't debate how it makes you feel, but for my part, I've never been closer to the makers of D&D than I am right now. Yesterday, I had an exchange with 4e's lead developer on ONE of his blogs. I've had numerous occasions to engage in online discussions with any number of D&D writers, developers and publishers. I've gotten replies to questions from the brand manager and I've even asked questions of the game's original designer, right on these very forums. Heck, just yesterday I got an e-mail from Paizo telling me that my new Pathfinder book and first module subscription are on their way to me. Nearly 30 years ago, that was UNTHINKABLE.

And the rules to many board games do change. My daughter has a copy of Life that has very different rules from the version that I had as a kid. Many other popular board games have been modified similarly. Saying "board games don't change" just doesn't hold water. Some board games have not changed in years. Many others have.

Very true. Heck, even recent games change a lot. Knucklebones magazine, for example, periodically runs articles on the history of many popular board games....and many of them are in constant flux. Take a look the game of Life or even just the scoring differences between versions of Carcassonne. They change all the time.

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

So how did you feel at 2E? 3E? for all that 1E or 2E stuff you had?

I got into 1E late in the game so it didn't bother me that 2E was coming out. I didn't have a whole lot invested in 1E.

By the end of 2E, I'd given up on it. It had become too bloated and I had lost interest. 3E coming along rekindled my interest and I thought it was a cool (and necessary!) advancement.

I view the transition from 3.0 to 3.5 as WotC admitting they screwed up and had to fix things.

4E? Meh. I'm sick of hearing about grappling. Yeah, it was a problem. So fix the problem. You don't need to redesign the game to fix grappling. I think WotC is doing a really good whitewashing job to convince people that 4E is necessary when really it isn't. All the online gaming aspects are needed, but 4E is not. At least, not yet.

Just watch. 5E will be along in 6 years. Then 6E in 4 years. As it goes more and more online, you'll see updated versions alot faster.

Meh.