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Just played my 7th 4E game

MerricB

Eternal Optimist
Supporter
Thought it'd be different than all the "just played my 1st 4e game" threads we have around. :)

You can find a slightly fuller account of what happened in the sessions in my blog, but I wanted to discuss a couple of things I discovered in recent sessions:

Missing a Wizard (controller) hurts when you face minions. Especially when there's a pit between you and them and they're throwing javelins.

There's a belief by people who've only read the rules or played one session that every class is basically the same: all attacks deal the same damage, etc. The more I play, the more I see how false that is. Missing a controller meant the group didn't have anyone with an area attack that could take out several kobolds at once. All that bonus damage the strikers get is completely wasted on minions.

If you fight a solo creature, you want a defender to protect the strikers. A solo Ogre fought a Fighter, Cleric, Warlock and Rogue.

This was a fascinating combat, because it was the first time I'd used a solo creature. Yes, I made up the stats for the solo Ogre myself, using the guidelines in the DMG. The Rogue had been having a lot of problems in previous sessions because getting into a good Combat Advantage (flanking) situation had been pretty hard... the monsters kept dying. Against the Ogre, which had about 260 hp, getting into position was easy. Then it was just a case of not being hit...

That's where the fighter came in. The Ogre had to concentrate on him. If he didn't, then the fighter got free attacks and the Ogre had penalties to hit. The Warlock had been doing his bonus damage consistently, but the Rogue finally got his day - his bonus damage is more because it's harder to apply. And it helped them kill the Ogre before the Fighter went down for the second time. (The Cleric kept the fighter alive, whilst also helping attack the Ogre).

You want a leader; you really want a Cleric. Especially when you're up against an Ogre.

Groups can survive without a leader. The group certainly did so last session when they didn't have a leader (cleric or warlord) with the group. However, radford rejoined the group with a Cleric this session, and we noticed the difference. The Cleric is just so much better at healing people than anyone else.

The other thing that Bradford kept noticing and enthusing about was this: the Cleric was fun to play. With Healing Word being a minor ability, he could still attack. And the attacks were giving bonuses to his friends as well as dealing damage to the monster, he was feeling both involved and useful.

Cheers!
 
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Rakor

First Post
The group I recently joined has a rogue, ranger, wizard and cleric. Before I showed up they were having all sorts of trouble keeping people up and fighting. Their ranger kept getting beaten to heck by monsters because she was trying to be a defender. I joined as a paladin and nobody has gone down since. I've got the hp, AC and healing to keep fighting and avoid dying.

It's amazing the difference in play with different party compositions.
 

Rakor

First Post
The other thing that has been cool is how different minions are based on the environment. The party that I DM for is terrified of minions because when they first encountered them it was in large open spaces with difficult terrain. Kobold minions with javelins are terrifyingly vicious under those circumstances.

In the game where I play a dragonborn paladin we've been facing goblins in a tight, cramped warren. The goblin cutters keep getting absolutely reamed by my breath weapon because they can't get out of a 3x3 area (5x5 now, mua ha ha).
 

JesterOC

Explorer
Thought it'd be different than all the "just played my 1st 4e game" threads we have around. :)

This is important since 1st impressions are almost always wrong. Here is some of my experiences to date.

Me and my small group (3 players and me the DM) have played 3 full 4e sessions and about 3-4 4e lite sessions.

It was not until recently did they finaly start to work very well as a team. They did not start firing on all cylinders until the Warlock switched to a wizard(long story short but the warlock character was feeling frustrated by the complex situational modifiers he had choosen for his Teifling Warlock, so we opted for the simpler yet more versitile Wizard).

That opened up a lot of conversations on how to best use the wizards cantrips. That discussion seemed to break a mindset of independence and the party really started working together all throughout the session.



JesterOC
 


Scribble

First Post
Huh, whaddya know.

I noticed that my group(s) also took 3 sessions before grokking the whole 'teamwork' thing.

Yeah... I think it works kind of like:

Session 1: Players find out how crazy monsters are now... They also learn "run up and bash" isn't the most viable option anymore.

Session 2: Players start to realize what some of their powers can do. (Aside from straight damage effects) and how they function in relationship tot eh game.

Session 3: Players start to talk about group tactics, and how they noticed how a certain power might work well if someone does something in particular...
 

MarkAHart

Explorer
Yeah... I think it works kind of like:

Session 1: Players find out how crazy monsters are now... They also learn "run up and bash" isn't the most viable option anymore.

Session 2: Players start to realize what some of their powers can do. (Aside from straight damage effects) and how they function in relationship tot eh game.

Session 3: Players start to talk about group tactics, and how they noticed how a certain power might work well if someone does something in particular...

Fascinating. This is pretty close to my group's experiences, also. After the third game, some players started asking other players for which new power the group thought would come in the most handy.
 



MerricB

Eternal Optimist
Supporter
My feeling as a DM is that 4e isn't that different than 3e to run (although with less cumbersome statblocks). However, I feel that it looks a lot different from the player's view.

Cheers!
 

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