Kalamar - first published 4e setting?!?

[hong]

Watering down Kalamar by deviating from its core concept of an internally logical and "organic" world - geography, culture, names, history, religion - might do far more harm than good.

Which has nothing to do with syllables.

 

[amethal]

Which has nothing to do with syllables.

Thank goodness for that.

 

[Desdichado]

Watering down Kalamar by deviating from its core concept of an internally logical and "organic" world - geography, culture, names, history, religion - might do far more harm than good.

Harm? How so? What "harm" does it do to change the names to something that my players are comfortable with?

 

[Fenes]

Hint: Kalamar isn't real.

Those elves you're pretending to be? They're not real either.

Of course not. But the product we are talking about is real. And we - at least I am - talking about a product, and whether a product becomes stupid by not pleasing hong.

Which has nothing to do with syllables.

Changing the names from "this is the culture, and names follow those rules" to "make it sound better for hong" is deviating from the concept.

 

[gonesailing]

How many languages have this?

"... aesthetic sensibilities that allow the words to trip easily off the tongue despite their non-english nature."

Russian doesn't. Chinese doesn't. Most, if not all, non English languages do not. Which is why I guess it works for me.

For those who don't want sucha strong "foreign" feel, and want an English setting, they could just replace such words with english words the DM and players can pronounce.

I like how it reinforces the fact that their are significant differences in culture, etc...

*****Disclaimer****
I have not read Kalamar, nor do I have a horse in this race
*****End Disclaimer****


How many languages do you speak? I personally am fluent only in English, but speak/understand a smattering of Russian, Greek, Spanish, and Italian. Additionally, Russian is the second language in my family. And don't let my wife hear you talking about Russian like that.
Russian does indeed have an aesthetic feel that allows those who speak the language to let the language flow from them. Too many Poets/Bards in Russia use their language too well to make that statement.
There are some combinations of consonants that are just darn difficult for me (an English speaker) to say, but they are memorable and sound "right". Zdrastvuete (sp?) is my prime example.
Greek (which you don't call out) is the same (but with less tongue-tying). Anyway, once you know the Alphabet, the words are dead easy to sound out.

My wife tells me that while Japanese may sound a little funny sometimes. The way that words are constructed makes the language flow just fine.

 

[hong]

Of course not. But the product we are talking about is real. And we - at least I am - talking about a product, and whether a product becomes stupid by not pleasing hong.

If enough people think it's stupid, then it's stupid.

Changing the names from "this is the culture, and names follow those rules" to "make it sound better for hong" is deviating from the concept.

Nonsense. There are rules that produce good syllables, and there are rules that produce stupid syllables.

 

[Fenes]

Harm? How so? What "harm" does it do to change the names to something that my players are comfortable with?

It may turn other people off from it, just like adding a volcano and a desert in a place where it shouldn't be.

No one says you can't change the names on your own, for your group - but if you're marketing a product like KoK as a world with an inherent logic and systematic build, changing aspects of it to "make it sound cooler" might change the product for the worse, and lose you your market.

 

[Fenes]

If enough people think it's stupid, then it's stupid.

That doesn't become true no matter how often you say it. Life is not a roleplaying game, where your imagination changes the game reality.

Nonsense. There are rules that produce good syllables, and there are rules that produce stupid syllables.

Stupid in your opinion. I am sure you'll consider some of my family's names stupid too, since they do not conform to your taste. But that doesn't mean we should change them.

 

[hong]

That doesn't become true no matter how often you say it. Life is not a roleplaying game, where your imagination changes the game reality.

Perhaps more syllables are in order. If enough people think something is stupid, then it is reasonable to act as if that thing is indeed stupid, regardless of the underlying epistemological issues regarding the validity or otherwise of subjective preference rankings. Hence one can say that, for all practical purposes, if enough people think it's stupid, then it's stupid.

Is this clear?

Stupid in your opinion. I am sure you'll consider some of my family's names stupid too, since they do not conform to your taste. But that doesn't mean we should change them.

I was not aware that many ppl considered your family name stupid, but I am willing to be convinced otherwise.

 

[Fenes]

Perhaps more syllables are in order. If enough people think something is stupid, then it is reasonable to act as if that thing is indeed stupid, regardless of the underlying epistemological issues regarding the validity or otherwise of subjective preference rankings. Hence one can say that, for all practical purposes, if enough people think it's stupid, then it's stupid.

Is this clear?

I think you missed my earlier reply: It is only reasonable to act as if said thing is indeed stupid if you actually want something from those people, like selling them a product.

If you want to sell a song of a given style to people who like that style, it would not be reasonable to consider it a stupid song just beacause some people consider it stupid. It's called "know your target audience".
And if there are already other songs who fit the taste of those people better, trying to change your song into something similar, but not as fitting, would be downright stupid - it would turn off your original target audience, and not gain you many new customers, since your product still wouldn't fit their taste very well.

Or in other words: KoK appeals to their target audience exactly because they have a streamlined, inherently logical product with names that do sound like they could have formed "naturally" in those regions. Changning those names to "whatever sounds kewl" might turn the current buyers off, and given the other areas of the setting, still not bring in more of the "I want kewl names" crowd.

Is this clear now? We can go into ice cream and pizza examples, if needed, to avoid the political examples.

I was not aware that many ppl considered your family name stupid, but I am willing to be convinced otherwise.

Since you have issues with KoK names, I think you have issues with other "strange" names as well. I am willing to be convinced otherwise, but your insistance that some names are stupid just for not sounding right to you makes me doubt the success of this.