Keep on the Shadowfells Questions!

[DMDanW]

Another KotS Question

One of my players asked me this question, which I looked through the rules that came with KotS and could not find an answer - hope you folks can help me out here;

Question:

The Warlord's at-will power: Viper's Strike

It says: "If the target shifts before the start of your next turn, it provokes an opportunity attack from an ally of your choice."

My question is: does the ally of my choice have to be adjacent to the target, or can he use ranged weapons/spells for this opportunity attack?

In the Quick Start rules, it says: [Opportunity Attack] "When an enemy leaves a square adjacent to you, or when an adjacent enemy makes a ranged or an area attack, you can make an opportunity attack against that enemy."

However, one of the Three Basic Rules of 4e is that "Specific Beats General".
So the general rule about Opportunity Attacks is that you must be adjacent to make one, but the Specific power (Viper's Strike) does not mention it...(keep in mind, some of the other powers specifically mention adjacency, like "Wolf Pack Tactics", "Leaf on the Wind", so I was wondering why this one did not state it...perhaps it was implied?).

 

[Rechan]

Bump.

 

[Kordeth]

One of my players asked me this question, which I looked through the rules that came with KotS and could not find an answer - hope you folks can help me out here;

Question:

The Warlord's at-will power: Viper's Strike

It says: "If the target shifts before the start of your next turn, it provokes an opportunity attack from an ally of your choice."

My question is: does the ally of my choice have to be adjacent to the target, or can he use ranged weapons/spells for this opportunity attack?

In the Quick Start rules, it says: [Opportunity Attack] "When an enemy leaves a square adjacent to you, or when an adjacent enemy makes a ranged or an area attack, you can make an opportunity attack against that enemy."

However, one of the Three Basic Rules of 4e is that "Specific Beats General".
So the general rule about Opportunity Attacks is that you must be adjacent to make one, but the Specific power (Viper's Strike) does not mention it...(keep in mind, some of the other powers specifically mention adjacency, like "Wolf Pack Tactics", "Leaf on the Wind", so I was wondering why this one did not state it...perhaps it was implied?).

An opportunity attack is always a melee basic attack (although IIRC there's a feat that lets you use an at-will power with a blade). You have to threaten an enemy to be able to make a melee attack, and you don't have reach except on your turn--so yes, your ally has to be adjacent to the target (and has to be able to make a melee basic attack). There's nothing in the description of Viper Strike that countermands that, so the normal rules all apply. That's what "exception-based rules" mean. Unless a power specifically countermands the standard rule, the standard rule applies.

Wolf Pack Tactics and Leaf on the Wind specify adjacent allies because the requirement of being adjacent isn't included in the action it allows you to take. If Viper's Strike wanted to allow your ally to make a ranged attack, it would have said "an ally of your choice can make a melee or ranged basic attack against the target."

 

[npiccini]

Regarding healing again -
1) It says one of the methods of healing a dying ally is to use the heal skill for a DC 10 check to allow the second wind ability. Does that mean if an ally drops in combat but has already expended their encounter allotted second wind there is no way to heal them up so they can fight longer (assuming their is no cleric or paladin in that remaining group)? Our group lacked a cleric and the paladin kept dropping and since the warlord, fighter and rogue couldn't grant healing surges as part of their powers, it seemed impossible to revive the paladin

2) when you are outside of combat, can you activate your healing surges to heal back to full health?

 

[themilkman]

Regarding healing again -
1) It says one of the methods of healing a dying ally is to use the heal skill for a DC 10 check to allow the second wind ability. Does that mean if an ally drops in combat but has already expended their encounter allotted second wind there is no way to heal them up so they can fight longer (assuming their is no cleric or paladin in that remaining group)? Our group lacked a cleric and the paladin kept dropping and since the warlord, fighter and rogue couldn't grant healing surges as part of their powers, it seemed impossible to revive the paladin

Correct! Once they've used their Second Wind, you can't trigger it with a heal check. Unless you have a pally, cleric, or warlord there to heal them, they are going to stay out for the rest of the fight. You can use a heal check to stablize them, but that's it. Also, if they roll a 20 on one of their dying saving throws, they get to burn a healing surge and jump back in (PHB, page 295).

2) when you are outside of combat, can you activate your healing surges to heal back to full health?

Yep! After a short rest, you can spend as many healing surges as you want to outside of combat (PHB, page 293). The usual rule with encounter powers is that you can use them once every 5 minutes outside of combat. That does not apply in this case because you're not using the Second Wind power, you're just using the healing surges directly, which can only be done outside of combat.

 

[Blackeagle]

Correct! Once they've used their Second Wind, you can't trigger it with a heal check. Unless you have a pally, cleric, or warlord there to heal them, they are going to stay out for the rest of the fight. You can use a heal check to stablize them, but that's it.

Not quite true. You can administer a healing potion. That will get them back into the fight.

 

[anomalousman]

Mark for one. A well placed positioning strike helps too. My paladin liked to just chuck javelins at them. Also, try readying an action for when the Dragonscale guys walk over to you, then whomp them, because their immediate action is when you move adjacent to them.

Also, a charge. Because the immediate action is a reaction rather than an interrupt, the charge attack goes off.

 

[ryryguy]

No one wants to take a stab at mine? Here it is again:

Here's one... for the terror runes in the crypt, no saving throw is mentioned. Is the effecct supposed to last until the victim reaches area 7?

I was thinking it might have the standard save at the end of your turn to get rid of it... but what if it happens outside of combat?

Also, IIRC it says the victim takes an "immediate action" to run towards area 7... so this would happen even if it's not the vicitm's turn?

Another little one... in the Tactics section of area 13 it says the warcaster will try to use line and burst attacks against the PCs. However he doesn't seem to have any line powers. Am I missing something or is this just a little glitch in the writing?

 

[Hawke]

Another little one... in the Tactics section of area 13 it says the warcaster will try to use line and burst attacks against the PCs. However he doesn't seem to have any line powers. Am I missing something or is this just a little glitch in the writing?

I don't think "line" powers exist, so perhaps a glitch in the writing. I don't have the PHB so I'm not sure if perhaps I'm missing something.

 

[ryryguy]

Oh... I don't have the books either... but in the quick start rules for the module, it does mention "Barrier" as an area of effect type. I assume that's the "line"... but yeah, I'm not sure I saw any examples of this type anywhere in the module.