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<blockquote data-quote="Grogg of the North" data-source="post: 6592946" data-attributes="member: 6682960"><p>The 3.5 DMG. My apologies on not being specific. The gist of the passage is that as DM, you can't cheat. What you say goes. But you should be careful in what you do because you're playing a game and the point of the game is to have fun. It also states that if your players feel you won't let them die they'll get crazy in what they're doing. Pathfinder's core rulebook, IIRC, gives similar advice. The BESM handbook, while I don't recall it calling out fudging exactly emphasizes having fun above the rolls and rules. </p><p></p><p>As for being asked about it directly, the answer I would give is "That's not for you to know". If you're really worried about being "caught", get multiple d20s and put on a little show about how your dice have betrayed you and can't roll above a 5. Putting the die in "Time out" helps. Again, as I've pointed out I've been in sessions where we suspected that the GM was fudging. He was fudging in order to keep the game going and so that everyone at the table, himself included, was still having fun*. No one begrudged him for it. In fact we were all happy he took steps to keep the game going.</p><p></p><p>I think we've reached a point in this discussion where the disagreement on GMs fudging a die roll is going to come down to play styles more than anything. Some players are going to want a grim and gritty, play it where it lays game. Where a streak of bad luck will result in a TPK and that's that. Other players want to play in a more narrative based game where heroes succeed in spite of the odds. Neither play style is wrong. Neither is right. </p><p></p><p>Have I fudged die rolls? Yes. Would I do it again? Yes, if it helps the game and enjoyment of everyone. Did my group know? I don't know. No one ever said anything to me and I've been playing with the same group, more or less, for years. Have I been in groups where the DM has fudged? Yes, and I don't mind. As long as it keeps the narrative going and everyone has fun. </p><p></p><p>I'm not sure if we, as a community, are going to reach any sort of consensus on this topic. We're on page 5 and the discussion seems to be just going in circles. I've certainly contributed to that and I feel I have done this discussion, and the community, a disservice. If fudging die rolls is a deal breaker for any player, then I think the best thing to do, when joining a new group or having a new DM at the table, is to ask what they feel about it. If the DM is fine with fudging die rolls but the group wants all the rolls in the open then the DM should go with what they want. D&D is an incredibly social game. The DM is, responsible for ensuring everyone at the table is having fun. If one player wants everything in the open but the rest of the group wants DM rolls hidden, then that player should ask themselves if that is a deal breaker for that game. </p><p></p><p>*The "at CR encounter" was grossly outside of the party's abilities to handle and on its way to a TPK. The DM quickly realized this and did his best to fix the situation while keeping the game going.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Grogg of the North, post: 6592946, member: 6682960"] The 3.5 DMG. My apologies on not being specific. The gist of the passage is that as DM, you can't cheat. What you say goes. But you should be careful in what you do because you're playing a game and the point of the game is to have fun. It also states that if your players feel you won't let them die they'll get crazy in what they're doing. Pathfinder's core rulebook, IIRC, gives similar advice. The BESM handbook, while I don't recall it calling out fudging exactly emphasizes having fun above the rolls and rules. As for being asked about it directly, the answer I would give is "That's not for you to know". If you're really worried about being "caught", get multiple d20s and put on a little show about how your dice have betrayed you and can't roll above a 5. Putting the die in "Time out" helps. Again, as I've pointed out I've been in sessions where we suspected that the GM was fudging. He was fudging in order to keep the game going and so that everyone at the table, himself included, was still having fun*. No one begrudged him for it. In fact we were all happy he took steps to keep the game going. I think we've reached a point in this discussion where the disagreement on GMs fudging a die roll is going to come down to play styles more than anything. Some players are going to want a grim and gritty, play it where it lays game. Where a streak of bad luck will result in a TPK and that's that. Other players want to play in a more narrative based game where heroes succeed in spite of the odds. Neither play style is wrong. Neither is right. Have I fudged die rolls? Yes. Would I do it again? Yes, if it helps the game and enjoyment of everyone. Did my group know? I don't know. No one ever said anything to me and I've been playing with the same group, more or less, for years. Have I been in groups where the DM has fudged? Yes, and I don't mind. As long as it keeps the narrative going and everyone has fun. I'm not sure if we, as a community, are going to reach any sort of consensus on this topic. We're on page 5 and the discussion seems to be just going in circles. I've certainly contributed to that and I feel I have done this discussion, and the community, a disservice. If fudging die rolls is a deal breaker for any player, then I think the best thing to do, when joining a new group or having a new DM at the table, is to ask what they feel about it. If the DM is fine with fudging die rolls but the group wants all the rolls in the open then the DM should go with what they want. D&D is an incredibly social game. The DM is, responsible for ensuring everyone at the table is having fun. If one player wants everything in the open but the rest of the group wants DM rolls hidden, then that player should ask themselves if that is a deal breaker for that game. *The "at CR encounter" was grossly outside of the party's abilities to handle and on its way to a TPK. The DM quickly realized this and did his best to fix the situation while keeping the game going. [/QUOTE]
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