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<blockquote data-quote="ExploderWizard" data-source="post: 6596899" data-attributes="member: 66434"><p>I am confused. There is no NO DIE ROLL RESULT that will automatically end the game. Even if a TPK happens the players can simply roll up new characters and keep playing. The game only comes to an end if the participants decide that they want to end it. As to having fun, this will be heavily dependent on the group. For every group that had fun because you fudged to keep them alive, another will have their fun spoiled because they DIDN'T die as they should have. Keeping the group together on these issues is achieved through honesty about the style of game you want to run. </p><p></p><p></p><p>The one good way that never fails to impress on the players that their characters can die is if they actually can. There is no substitute. Many of these tricks & deceptions used to "maintain the fun" only come about because the DM is afraid that his/her players cannot handle failure and will cry if things don't always go their way. Do mature people not play these games? Is the concept of win some, lose some no longer known as a consequence of playing games? </p><p></p><p>Players conduct themselves differently if they feel that as "heroes" they cannot ultimately fail and everything will work out eventually. They will never retreat or shy away from the most ridiculous overwhelming odds simply because they know that they will win because of hero status. Victories are never won, they are inevitable. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Again I am baffled at the extraordinary measures employed to "keep the game going" when that is going to happen anyway unless the group chooses to stop. </p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p>This I can agree with so long as all of the participants know what style is being run and are on board with it. </p><p></p><p></p><p>Yeah, and I think that is really what some of us have been saying. Play in whatever style suits the group and make sure everyone can make informed choices about what games they want to participate in. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>There is also a difference between a DM actually screwing up and players insisting on biting off more than they can chew. A genuine mistake can be admitted and corrected, but if the players decide to attack a village full of trolls because it seemed like a good idea then the mistake was made by the players not the DM, and it may be a mistake that ends with a large stew pot and a stack of fresh character sheets.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="ExploderWizard, post: 6596899, member: 66434"] I am confused. There is no NO DIE ROLL RESULT that will automatically end the game. Even if a TPK happens the players can simply roll up new characters and keep playing. The game only comes to an end if the participants decide that they want to end it. As to having fun, this will be heavily dependent on the group. For every group that had fun because you fudged to keep them alive, another will have their fun spoiled because they DIDN'T die as they should have. Keeping the group together on these issues is achieved through honesty about the style of game you want to run. The one good way that never fails to impress on the players that their characters can die is if they actually can. There is no substitute. Many of these tricks & deceptions used to "maintain the fun" only come about because the DM is afraid that his/her players cannot handle failure and will cry if things don't always go their way. Do mature people not play these games? Is the concept of win some, lose some no longer known as a consequence of playing games? Players conduct themselves differently if they feel that as "heroes" they cannot ultimately fail and everything will work out eventually. They will never retreat or shy away from the most ridiculous overwhelming odds simply because they know that they will win because of hero status. Victories are never won, they are inevitable. Again I am baffled at the extraordinary measures employed to "keep the game going" when that is going to happen anyway unless the group chooses to stop. This I can agree with so long as all of the participants know what style is being run and are on board with it. Yeah, and I think that is really what some of us have been saying. Play in whatever style suits the group and make sure everyone can make informed choices about what games they want to participate in. There is also a difference between a DM actually screwing up and players insisting on biting off more than they can chew. A genuine mistake can be admitted and corrected, but if the players decide to attack a village full of trolls because it seemed like a good idea then the mistake was made by the players not the DM, and it may be a mistake that ends with a large stew pot and a stack of fresh character sheets. [/QUOTE]
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