Keeping track of combat length (for posterity)

[Noumenon]

The instant I open a door and see the entire room covered with runes, I'd be hooked. And that puzzle is a great payoff for it. What numbers did you use exactly? I'm thinking you would want it to be +4 to +6 to AC initially, so that the PCs would have to use the control panel if they wanted to hit. Then they might strategize later on, to turn it back to +AC while everyone used their healing surges or powers that attack Reflex. I wonder if just "to hit" and "to AC" would be an interesting enough puzzle then. What other options did you use?

 

[Aegeri]

My encounters this weekend, but before beginning I must say the MM3 and the changes to monster design have really changed my game. I've gone from 2 encounters in four hours to running four encounters in four hours. I'm immensely happy with the new math behind monsters (especially their damage) and the general improvements to their powers.

In any event here are the encounters I ran and ELs, my party is level 28 and then level 29 after the first encounter.

Consists of: Sorcerer, Wizard, Fighter, Barbarian and Cleric.

They are currently defending the deck and controls of a huge elemental warship that they are flying straight into the BBEGs swirling fortress of doom to penetrate it.

First Encounter: EL 28 solo Balor of my own semi-construction (part Wizards and part my own). Used the new maths for damage and attack bonuses.

Was a resounding success. It was an immensely short fight, only 4 rounds but was obscenely violent. My houserule that lets solos save against "end of next turn effects", the better accuracy and huge damage meant for a very short, violent but exciting fight. One of my favourite solo fights and was completely even level with the party! No huge 2 hour grind of almost missing with the solo "scratching" the PCs for a pitiful 18 damage a hit.

Couldn't have been happier.

Next encounter with the party at level 29; EL 29 encounter.

2 Fire Archon Blazeswords (level 28 solider)
2 Oil archons (Level 28 brute)
6 Fire Archon Flamebows (Level 28 minion)
1 Iron Archon (Level 28 skirmisher)

This encounter didn't go so well, due to the PCs having legions hold (close burst 20 stun power if you've never seen it before). None the less the archons got some good hits in and were able to abuse the party quite a bit before dying, but overall got very unlucky (some very good dice rolls went against them so they didn't get to move that much).

Next encounter was around EL 30 (So EL +1).

Klurichir (level 28 soldier)
Swordtail Vrock (level 29 Skirmisher)
Herald of Colorless Fire (Level 28 skirmisher)
Godslayer Inferno (Level 28 artillery)
Chosen of Pazuzu (Level 29 artillery/controller - sort of does both)
Six shards of uralinda.

This battle was interesting because it was their first chosen. He's based on the demonomicon entry with the alternative powers that followers of Pazuzu have. His main thing is "Seed of Discord" which forces a PC to use their highest level encounter power against their allies (power "borrowed" from the Astral Kraken). The Barbarian has Hurricane of Blades (can you see where this is about to go by chance?). The Cleric at one point used his phalanx leader power, which allowed the Barbarian to teleport adjacent to him. The chosen went and in a very tense four attacks, the Cleric had to suffer his own allies Hurricane of Blades! 111 damage later, the Cleric managed to get away with it, but he was soon mobbed by the Godslayer inferno and the herald of colorless fire.

The Klurichir didn't get to do that much overall, as he was a bit far from the action in the end. He did take a big chunk out of the fighter and prevented him from healing during the entire fight, so was overall a success. The Swordtail Vrock flew about clawing at the PCs as well and generally being a pain.

None the less they progressed through that combat in 5 rounds and with plenty of time to spare. Sadly the soccer drew the defender away from the game - which slowed down this encounter and the next one quite a lot (PCs playing other peoples characters often slows the game up massively sadly).

This battle took roughly an hour (that is with a PC missing!) and it was appropriately challenging. Epic tier fights before have been walkovers with the PCs barely noticing, so I am very impressed thus far.

The final encounter was EL 21 (EL +2) and consisted of:

1 Swordtail Vrock (Level 29 Skirmisher)
1 Marilith Ward Keeper (level 29 controller)
1 Molydeus (Level 29 something, I think he's a soldier)
6 Goristo Eviscerators (Level 28 minion)
1 Bonegouge Assassin (level 28 lurker)
1 Herald of Colorless Fire (Level 28 skirmisher)

This encounter has been interesting because the Marilith got a huge chunk out of the Barbarian straight away and the fighter. The PCs have got things back a lot by the wizard using Legions Hold twice (Close burst 20 stuns on hit, dazes on a miss - both save ends. Obscenely good actually). The bonegouge assassin hasn't had a single turn and neither has the herald of colorless fire - which is kind of annoying (really, legions hold is incredibly brutal when someone can do it three times in one encounter).

Thankfully the demonic generals have been showing the chaff how things are done. The molydeus has been on a pure rampage of destruction against the cleric, mauling him with its two turns of attacks and an opportunity attack when the cleric tried to leave (Due to his ability to autosave stun/daze effects he's not been bothered by legions hold). The Marilith as I mentioned took huge chunks out of both the barbarian and the fighter - though will be dying on her next turn unless she gets a bit lucky somewhere.

We've left the combat at around round 4 and it will probably end on round 5/6. Then I've got the final encounter of that ship to do, an antagonist from the PCs past is going to show up to try thwarting their attempt at getting to the genuine BBEG. Should be quite dramatic, as the Balor they killed in the first encounter? He's not gone yet, he's going to form into a sneaky cacodaemon and try to posses one of the PCs during that fight - making it especially tricky. It's also the highest EL I've tried since the release of the MM3: EL + 4. Let's see if it will be truly as epic as I hope!

We had to stop before finishing because another player left and it was the end of the session anyway. But it won't take long to resolve at the start of next session.

Overall I am a very happy DM. Epic tier is much more reasonable and playable with the new MM3 maths than it was before.

 

[Wik]

The instant I open a door and see the entire room covered with runes, I'd be hooked. And that puzzle is a great payoff for it. What numbers did you use exactly? I'm thinking you would want it to be +4 to +6 to AC initially, so that the PCs would have to use the control panel if they wanted to hit. Then they might strategize later on, to turn it back to +AC while everyone used their healing surges or powers that attack Reflex. I wonder if just "to hit" and "to AC" would be an interesting enough puzzle then. What other options did you use?

I kind of winged it, because that is how I am wont to do things. But it sort of went like this:

* There were three brutes, each with a timer. the first had a timer of "1", the second "2", and three "3" (go fig!). At the start of each brute's turn, the timer would drop - if it was at "0", the brute could go normally. A PC could spend a minor action to thievery one of the dials, and if they succeeded, they'd move it back two spaces - but if they failed, the timer would drop by one. Since the DC was 30, it was pretty close (I know my thieves, and they have digusting thievery checks). If a timer ever hit "5", that brute was shut down permanently (this happened to one of the brutes)

* There were also larger dials on one ledge. The DCs here were two higher, but the advantage was you had a better firing angle down on the brutes on the lower floor (we were using 3D dungeon tiles)

* A PC could also use the dials to shut off the minions heading into the room - again, failure on this check meant MORE minions came in.

* Finally, PCs could change the sigil in the centre - the four settings were (And I made these up on the spot):
- Blue (+2 to all defences)
- Red (+1d8 to all damage)
- Green (if you start your turn in the square, +10 temp HP; if end turn in the square and are bloodied, heal 1d12 hit points)
- Yellow (no effect)

Were I to do this again, I'd drop the "yellow" effect, and change it to some sort of haste effect (maybe can make a basic melee as a minor action, and +2 speed or something?). The trick with the encounter was that the brutes got the same effect - but the players were talking about putting two people at the control panel, sort of "DJing" effects... and I really should have encouraged that. I also should have thrown in a "control the minions" capability or something. But, I didn't want to make it too complicated.

 

[Wik]

My encounters this weekend, but before beginning I must say the MM3 and the changes to monster design have really changed my game. I've gone from 2 encounters in four hours to running four encounters in four hours. I'm immensely happy with the new math behind monsters (especially their damage) and the general improvements to their powers.

Fully agree. The MM3 has changed how I hit my party, and they suddenly have the fear of God in them again. That being said, the scariest monster they've fought in recent memory is a by-the-book MM1 Balhannoth, so it's not across-the-boards.

None the less they progressed through that combat in 5 rounds and with plenty of time to spare. Sadly the soccer drew the defender away from the game - which slowed down this encounter and the next one quite a lot (PCs playing other peoples characters often slows the game up massively sadly).

Ha. We were like that during the Stanley Cup playoffs and (of course) Canadian hockey during the Winter Olympics. I make no apologies.... Major Sports Moments > Gaming Time, in my humble opinion.

The PCs have got things back a lot by the wizard using Legions Hold twice (Close burst 20 stuns on hit, dazes on a miss - both save ends. Obscenely good actually). The bonegouge assassin hasn't had a single turn and neither has the herald of colorless fire - which is kind of annoying (really, legions hold is incredibly brutal when someone can do it three times in one encounter).

HOw the hell have they been managing that? It sounds pretty, uh, brutal.

 

[Aegeri]

Archmage, which lets you prepare a daily power you know a second time with Spell Recall (21st level feature). Then you use Shape Magic (level 26 power), which lets you regain a daily power you've used so you can do it a third time.

Despite this the encounter has still been challenging. A testament to how well MM3 creature design works, because when monsters do stuff it's actually relevant.

 

[Wik]

Archmage, which lets you prepare a daily power you know a second time with Spell Recall (21st level feature). Then you use Shape Magic (level 26 power), which lets you regain a daily power you've used so you can do it a third time.

Despite this the encounter has still been challenging. A testament to how well MM3 creature design works, because when monsters do stuff it's actually relevant.

Crap. We have a wizard in our group. I have a feeling I'll be seeing this exact problem in, oh, two months or so. Dammit.

Remember that brief period for about three months where, for the first time in thirty years, Wizards SUCKED?

...I remember it fondly, now.

 

[Aegeri]

Well, that was probably before people realized how good wizards actually were while they were still abloo ablooing over them not being completely game breaking.

Archmage and Legions Hold are both in the original players handbook. Throw Bloodmage as it was and Wizards were hands down the best class in 4th edition.

A bloodmage that goes archmage has:

2x uses of Destructive Salutation or 2x uses of Legions Hold (or some combination of that). So they have an area burst 3 targets enemies stuns on hit, stuns on miss power. Then a close burst 20, targets enemies, stuns on hit or dazes on miss power. At level 30 with archspell they probably turn legions hold or destructive salutation into an encounter power for further hilarity (and it's much easier to get encounter powers back).

Wizards at epic tier are frankly completely bananas and all of the above is from the players handbook and has survived a lot of errata.

Edit: I'd like to point out though that with terrain, powers and similar these are not "I win" buttons. The encounter that got 2 legions hold (and will get a third) was still quite challenging. The molydeus getting two turns and deciding he just isn't interested in this stun/daze save ends stuff really helps. He's still jumping all over the cleric with glee.

 

[Wik]

Ugh. You're scaring me even more. Our wizard is a blood mage. And he's already a pain in my keister.

*sigh*

 

[Aegeri]

There are ways to thwart this though: One combat later has an elemental "hole" that empowers all the daemons in the room. This gives them all the phasing quality. It doesn't matter how big a burst you have when half the daemons phase into the wall and the other half attack each round. This effectively means the daemons can "switch" positions so they cannot all be affected by one AoE burst (except maybe with a readied action).

In one of the future encounters, both Bonegouge assassins start phased into one of the walls in the room. This prevents every monster in the encounter being caught by Legion's hold and will force the PCs to think of another way of dealing with them (as only one comes out of the wall at any time, plus they always have total concealment due to their aura). Plus that encounter has two Molydeus, who get 2 turns and will therefore save the stun effect from legions hold - again preventing every monster from being shut down easily.

There is another encounter as well that has a circle of power on the floor that grants considerable protection against many burst/blast attacks. PCs have to avoid anything overlapping the circle, which makes using very large blast/burst powers extremely hard in that room. The point here is that by epic terrain effects to balance out encounters are almost as essential as what monsters you put into the encounter.

 

[Jdvn1]

I think I've been good about making a habit to record the stats for my games, but I haven't had time to put everything up!