D&D 4E Keith Baker on 4E! (The Hellcow responds!)

[RigaMortus2]

I will bet money that most DMs don't bother with half the skill checks they technically should be rolling. If the party members want an NPC to make full plate for them, it's done. If they want an NPC to decipher some weird scrolls for them, it's done. Etcetera. Unless there is potential for conflict (especially violent conflict), then this kind of thing is generally done by DM fiat.

Ok, but for that platemail, how long will it take to make? What is the cost? Don't you think there has to be some rules/guidelines for it, other than just up to DM whim? And if they do provide rules for such thing, why not also provide rules (to show some degree of consistancy) to show how exactly said NPC has +12 to Heal?

In the end it really doesn't matter, but I tend to favor rules and consistancy over DM fiat whenever possible.

 

[Spatula]

I think Klaus is saying that he can build the NPC per the rules, and then display only the information that he wants and needs, and that to a certain extent there is no need to concern yourself with rules minutiae that won't come up in play. And to an extent he's correct. That is possible in 3e.

However, history has shown us that that is not how 3e was officially presented. Dragon characters have full stat blocks. Dungeon NPCs have full stat blocks. Monsters have full stat blocks. Etc.

The difference with 4e is not that it allows you to do something new. The difference is that it as a default only requires you to provide the information that is going to be needed.

If official published 4e adventures provide NPCs with stat blocks like the one set out by Klaus, then IMO that is a massive improvement on the 3e standard.

Sorry, but you are completely wrong here. NPCs from published adventures don't have full stat blocks unless it's expected the PCs will fight them. I can pull out quotes from different adventure path modules or Dungeon issues if you like. The idea that Dungeon would have unneccessary stat block is a little odd, given how pressed for space they are.

 

[Spatula]

Anyway, I think WOTC_Miko has the only really relevant contribution, which is, DM fiat is much easier on the editors (plus it silences the noisy nitpicks).

 

[amethal]

Anyway, I think WOTC_Miko has the only really relevant contribution, which is, DM fiat is much easier on the editors (plus it silences the noisy nitpicks).

WotC proved (at least to my satisfaction) that 3rd edition isn't all about spending precious time getting your stat blocks right.

For example, read John Cooper's review of Monster Manual 3.

 

[catsclaw]

WotC proved (at least to my satisfaction) that 3rd edition isn't all about spending precious time getting your stat blocks right.

For example, read John Cooper's review of Monster Manual 3.

I think Clark Peterson posted something to that effect on another thread. 3.5 statblocks get nasty at higher levels. They're confusing to run and near impossible to write. You'd need a preternaturally talented editor to get them right.

If 4e makes that manageable, it's a important step forward.

 

[TerraDave]

Another one: I think it was Eric Mona who noted that for the 3E Deities and Demigods, they spent most of their time statting up the gods...and what a good use of time that turned out to be.

 

[jtrowell]

New post on Keith Baker's Blog :http://gloomforge.livejournal.com/

Rituals as a better way to simulate the magic economy, I like it. (and from what i can remember, magic items are now created using rituals too)

 

[Stormtalon]

Still more from the blog -- from today even:

Here's where I really can't reveal anything, because if someone official hasn't already explained how it works, I sure shouldn't be spilling the beans. However, I will say that the way non-combat magic (rituals) work creates a far stronger foundation for a magical economy than Vancian magic did. It's a system where it's clear how that lamplighter can put in a full day of work, as opposed to burning out his power with a single spell. So again, Eberron was founded on 3E, and the idea that magic was a force that followed logical patterns, that could be reliably controled by formula and ritual, and which could be taught - but Vancian magic always put some limits on the logic of a truly magical society. The rules for rituals make the idea of a professional, full-time magewright a simple and logical idea - and in fact, the system is such that it doesn't even require the existence of a separate magewright class.

The whole post (which is even more niftiness) can, as usual, be found here.

 

[Rzach]

What I really like about the Raise Dead issue is how it allows me to create an adventure or entire campaign out of returning a person to life.

This idea keeps running around my head so I thought I would share it.

Say a king is killed. He is in the prime of his life and well loved by the people. He can't be raised though because he has no destiny.

Well the characters could change that. Adventure to the outer planes and find a god of fate (or any similar deus ex machina). The deity forces them to complete a task for him if they want the Kings fate to be changed. When they succeed they can raise the King. Now he even has a destiny to fulfill.


Yes, I realize I could have done this in 3e or any other rpg. But now the rules give me a reason to do so. No more hearing players ask why their divine magic doesn't work in this situation. Now it is simple the King has no destiny unless the players can change his fate.

In my opinion this is a good improvement for the system.

Later,
Rzach

 

[VBMEW-01]

I like that concept Rzach

I can imagine that adventure as well as the consequences in the kingdom with the king and his champions out of the picture <insert evil DM laugh here>

Perhaps from a reverse angle, the PCsare trying to prevent an impending raise dead and go on a quest to subvert the big bad's destiny.

a definite fount of potential