Kendo in Blood and Fist

[Frank_Vinneti]

I really don't know where to ask this, and since I've seen question answered by (one of?) the creator of Blood and Fist himself, I'll ask here.

I've been reading Blood and Fist, which is great by the way, and came across the Kendo style feat. When you look at it, it looks powerful, but when you explore it, it seems very overpowered.

As an example:

Bob, our 16 level Kendoka (okay, seems pretty high level but just you wait) is level 6 Strong Hero, and 10 MAM. He started with 18 str, and has now 22 because of the level gain (looks like min maxing, I know). He uses his katana two handed, making his strength bonus to damage +9; he also has Improved Iaijutsu Strike with Improved Initiative.

Now, if he has a Dexterity of 14, he has an Initiative of +10, and with Hard Strike 3 (Katana), the damage from the Katana (base damage) are 3d12+9 (average 28.5). With his 16 level high BAB, his attack with weapon focus and accurate strike 2 are +24/+19/+14/+9. Pretty strong, huh? Well, you aint seen nothing. The first round in combat (which I'm sure he will start with an average of 20.5 init), if his opponent has a defense of 15, his chance of hitting all the time are (very) good; first attack: 3d12 (base damage) +4d6 (Improved Iaijutsu Strike) +9 (strength bonus); all other attack are 3d12+9. Average 128 damage for the first round in combat (damage range of 52-204). Even without the Iaijutsu Strike, its 114 average damage (damage range of 48-180). I don't cound in Pressure Point, of course.

What do you think? Is that an error?

Thanks,
Frankto

 

[Vigilance]

Hi this is Chuck, the author, nice to meet you Frankto

You present an extreme example, but one that came up in playtesting. Let me tell you what we did in an attempt to stress test the Blood and Fist rules- we compared extreme characters similar to Bob against extreme characters using the Core d20 Modern rules to see how they compared.

First- if I had a 15 Defense I wouldn't be going up against that guy

Second, let's say Bob, our "silver samurai" type character goes berserk Belushi style in a deli, and the Punisher is driving by and decides to throw down with him.

Punisher is a Strong Hero 6, Soldier 10, with a 22 Dex (18 at 1st level), an HK G3, with which he has Greater Weapon Specialization, and a Forced Entry Unit for Armor. So his Defense is 33 (+9 Equipment, +6 Dexterity, +8 Class), his BAB is +16/+11/+6. His total attack with the HK G3 is +23/+18/+13 (including bonuses for Dex and Weapon Focus). His damage is 2d10+4 (Greater Weapon Specialization), and he can hit with no range penalty at 120 feet. (4 rounds assuming no armor on Bob for him to get to Punisher)

Now since my character has nothing that is not in the d20 Modern Core Rules, but CAN have everything included in the core rules, we'll also say he has Improved Inititave and Far Shot.

So, to summarize, Bob does more damage, especially on the first round, if he wins initiative. However, given that Punisher has +12 Intiative (+6 Dex, +4 Improved Initiative, +2 Soldier ability), that's a toss-up.

I think Punisher isn't any WORSE than Bob, given that Bob has to be right in your face AND win initative AND be able to execute a full attack to carry out your example round of damage, which would really only happen in a duel with another Kendoka in my opinion.

Punisher's average damage is 60 per round, but since it will take Bob 4 rounds to reach him (assuming Punisher never moves back and makes only full attacks), Bob will have taken 240 points of damage on average before he reaches punisher and rolls initiative. At which time, Punisher has a better Initiative anyway.

So, while Bob is a bad man, he certainly isn't the most powerful character you could make using the rules, and I *still* think the gun reigns supreme in d20 Modern in terms of power level.

Chuck

 

[Frank_Vinneti]

Wow, thanks! That was quick.

To continue with my example, Bob has an defense of 24 (+10 class, +2 Dex, +1 Defensive Matrial Arts, +1 Dodge) so he is hit only 60% of the time. At 120 feet, any character can cover it up while running at max speed in two round, so thats only 120 average damage.

But I'm still satisfied with your answer, thanks Chuck.

I was asking this because I plan on creating a setting for D20 modern in the Tokugawa (Edo) period, in Japan, and I think Blood and Fist is the perfect complement to my setting (with a few added style like jittejutsu, bo/jojutsu, ect.). To solve my problem, I think I'll change the damage of the Katana to 1d8, so it won't be a "super sword" like in d20 Modern.

Thanks again, I appreciate it.

Frankto

 

[Vigilance]

Hey its my pleasure Frank

That situation did come up during playtesting, believe it or not, but it was my feeling that being in a position to conduct a full attack against a flat-footed opponent would be so rare, that it shouldn't really be an issue anyway

I also figured, if you WERE caught flat-footed by a full attack from a high level Samurai that you prolly should die anyway lol. Unless he was nice like Obi-Wan, in which case he would just cut your blaster-hand off.

Still- I like you solution too

Chuck

Edit: I have also given some thought to making a modern-OA add-on to Blood and Fists. Is this something a lot of folks would like to see?

 

[Frank_Vinneti]

I sure would like to see that. I'm a big fan of those things

 

[Douane]

Chuck,

I hope you won't mind, but I have question regarding "Blood and Fists" that had been on my mind since I saw your announcement on "Blood and Guts".


Is B&F aimed primarily at pure unarmed combat?
(I've seen from Frank's post that there is a Kendo feat and the review mentions the archaic weapons, but are there full 'armed styles'?)


While I'm at it, a second one:


Will it work seamlessly with B&G?
(I saw from your post above that you are thinking about a "modern-OA add-on to Blood and Fists". So B&F is more directed at the medieval and early modern period?)


Thanks,

Folkert

 

[Frank_Vinneti]

I can answer the first question myself.

Blood and Fist is a book that covers Martial Arts, Kendo/jutsu is one, as is Aikido. There are style feats like Kyudo, Kendo or Naginata-do that focus on certain weapon (Bow, Daisho [katana & wakizashi] and Naginata) and style feat like Karate, Taekwondo and Sumo Wrestling that focus on unarmed combat and grappling. The book covers the most common/popular combat arts/sport.

Soooo, it covers not only unarmed combat, but also dirty fighting and armed combat.

Good day,
Frankto o' zee lake

EDIT: I'm thinking of making a Bigswordjutsu style, for an anime game (ie Gatts from Berserk)

 

[Douane]

Frank,

thanks for the info!

Hmm, it looks better and better!


Since you mentioned making new styles, Frank, is that so easy? I would probably have to add several "ninja-style"o) weapon styles for the specific campaign I had in mind. (And I'm somewhat imagination-impaired, so there'd better be enough stuff to adapt for other weapons.)


Thanks,

Folkert

 

[Frank_Vinneti]

Creating new style, maneuvers and signature move is easy, and very well explained in the book. Its kind of a point buy system; you use one point for a zone of attack (grappling, kick, punch, head, ect.), other for bonus skills, ect. I don't remember by heart, but its explained at the beginning of each sections.

I personally love the Mastery system. A great idea in my opinion.

Good day,
Frankto

 

[Vigilance]

Chuck,
Will it work seamlessly with B&G?
(I saw from your post above that you are thinking about a "modern-OA add-on to Blood and Fists". So B&F is more directed at the medieval and early modern period?)
Folkert

Man Frank did a very good job of answering that question, thanks for watching my back Frank

Blood and Fists has the following new weapon categories, and most of these have Weapon martial arts styles associated with them.

Chinese Weapons
Gatka Weapons
Indonesian Weapons
Japanese Weapons
Samurai Weapons
Exotic Weapons

The full style list in the game is :

Creating New Styles
Aikido
Arnis
Boar
Boxing
Capoeira
Cat
Cobra
Commando Training
Dragon
Drunken Master
Eagle
Fencing
Gatka
Hapkido
Jeet Kune Do
Jujutsu
Karate
Kendo
Kobujutsu
Kung Fu
Kyudo
Leopard
Lua
Monkey
Naginato-do
Ninjutsu
Panther
Pentjak Silat
Praying Mantis
Python
ROSS
Savate
School of Hard Knocks
Scorpion
Shao-Lin
Sojitsu
Sumo Wrestling
TaeKwonDo
Thai Kickboxing
Tiger
White Crane
Wing Chun


Now to answer the second question, due to the pace of products, Blood and Fists ended up being playtested in both Blood and Relics (my ENnie nominated game- man I love saying that) AND Blood and Guts, so I can attest that it works seamlessly in both games.

Blood and Guts includes the openly military Commando Training, and some of the maneuvers that go with it, but having Blood and Fists as well would let you take, say Tae Kwon Do for your special ops character, instead of just Commando Training. (The best martial artist I ever saw in person was an air force special ops hand to hand combat instructor who had the most wicked snap kick you would never want to see coming at you).

To address another cool point you raised: Blood and Fists is designed to work with d20 Modern, so it is definitely a modern game. However, I think it would work with 3E as well, although there would be some mechanical glitches. However, the game is decidedly aimed at "Now" games

Chuck