The power of a spiderkissed weapon allows you to change the damage type of it to "poison" at will. When you use this power on a weapon the power stays there, and it isn't a property. What do you guys think of attacks made using a ki-focus for enhancement/power/property bonuses, but retaining the poison damage attribute of the original weapon?
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Ki Focus and Spiderkissed
- Thread starter Beta
- Start date
But you are not dealing damage with a ki focus according to the text from here:
"You can add its enhancement bonus to the attack rolls and the damage rolls of weapon attacks you make using a weapon with which you’re proficient.
However, you must choose to use the enhancement bonus, properties, and powers of the ki focus, rather than the weapon you’re wielding, or vice versa.
You can’t use both when you use a power."
You still seem to be "using the weapon" to make the rolls. If this wasn't the case it would suggest that weapon focus / expertise feats did not work with a ki focus that is employing the weapon in an attack. This would be a big disadvantage to the assassin.
"You can add its enhancement bonus to the attack rolls and the damage rolls of weapon attacks you make using a weapon with which you’re proficient.
However, you must choose to use the enhancement bonus, properties, and powers of the ki focus, rather than the weapon you’re wielding, or vice versa.
You can’t use both when you use a power."
You still seem to be "using the weapon" to make the rolls. If this wasn't the case it would suggest that weapon focus / expertise feats did not work with a ki focus that is employing the weapon in an attack. This would be a big disadvantage to the assassin.
It seems pretty clear the intention is that the Ki Focus completely overrides and replaces all magical abilities of the weapon itself. No mix-and-matching allowed. The wording seems to support this - it replaces both "properties and powers."
The poison effect comes from a power of the weapon. When the Ki Focus overrides the magic, that power doesn't function. Yes, it was a power previously activated, and the question is whether the effect lingers when that power is turned off... so I can see where your argument comes from. But I think it is clearly against the intent of the rules, and the specific wording as well.
Think about it this way - by your same logic, if I activated a Spiderkissed weapon's Poison power, and then stripped it of magic - transferring the enchantment elsewhere, for example - this argument could be made to state that it still dealt Poison damage. Clearly this isn't the case - even after the Power has been activated, if the Power of the weapon itself ceases to be available, I think the effect of that Power goes away as well.
The poison effect comes from a power of the weapon. When the Ki Focus overrides the magic, that power doesn't function. Yes, it was a power previously activated, and the question is whether the effect lingers when that power is turned off... so I can see where your argument comes from. But I think it is clearly against the intent of the rules, and the specific wording as well.
Think about it this way - by your same logic, if I activated a Spiderkissed weapon's Poison power, and then stripped it of magic - transferring the enchantment elsewhere, for example - this argument could be made to state that it still dealt Poison damage. Clearly this isn't the case - even after the Power has been activated, if the Power of the weapon itself ceases to be available, I think the effect of that Power goes away as well.
What about in cases of dealing with the following magical enhancement:
"Paired Weapon"
Power (at will): minor action. split the weapon into two identical weapons, one in your primary hand and one in your off-hand. You can spend another minor action to recombine the weapons into one. If you have the Quick Draw feat, you can split or recombine the weapon as a free action.
This is logically equivalent to the dilemma faced by damage element changing at will powers.
A power only comes into question when it is being used, the effects of a power are independent of the power itself. All powers are used via actions, so unless an action provokes it, it isn't coming into question.
"Paired Weapon"
Power (at will): minor action. split the weapon into two identical weapons, one in your primary hand and one in your off-hand. You can spend another minor action to recombine the weapons into one. If you have the Quick Draw feat, you can split or recombine the weapon as a free action.
This is logically equivalent to the dilemma faced by damage element changing at will powers.
A power only comes into question when it is being used, the effects of a power are independent of the power itself. All powers are used via actions, so unless an action provokes it, it isn't coming into question.
Ryujin
Legend
The poison damage from the Spiderkissed weapon is a power, which the text that you just quoted states that you must forgo when using the bonuses of the Ki Focus. It's an either/or proposition, not a Chinese buffet.
Ryujin
Legend
Except that what he quoted specifically states, "... and powers of the ki focus..."
I disagree that your refutation is valid. My proposition is that I am not using the power of a spiderkissed or a paired weapon when I'm making an attack with it. I've already used the power, and that action to use the power is over. Can you explain how I am using the power of the paired weapon or spiderkissed weapon when I am making an attack, yet I'm performing no action to use these powers. As you said, I can only use the powers and properties of the ki focus when I'm making an attack that's enhanced by it. You are not addressing the point of my argument, you're stonewalling.
A possible counter argument would be as follows:
1. Through an interpretation of grammar, "using a power" includes: "utilizing the effects of a power AND performing the power as an action."
2. An interpretation of powers, properties, and items: The only way items can be modified is through gaining powers, properties, or enhancements, so any modification to a weapon is one of these. When the spiderkissed or paired weapon powers activate, they're giving those items a property of dealing poison damage or 'exsisting in a pair'.
3. This effect is not within the spirit of the rules, so it should be overriden by a DM.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure other people have already said those things in this thread, and you yourself seem pretty well aware of the arguments against your interpretation. I'm not sure what you are looking for here - clearly, there isn't going to be any more authoritative ruling that what you have already laid out for us. If you really want to twist the intent of the rules and get Spiderkissed or whatever to work with Ki Focus, ask your DM.
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