Kinda annoyed!

[akbearfoot]

So I just wanted to vent a tiny bit. And see if others have similar experiences in their various gaming groups.

We're playing through The Age of Worms, so no spoilers please.

We're 19th level, and we know there are only a couple chapters left before the final showdown. It's taken us over a year of gaming to get from 1st level to here. Great game in general. We're in the Ebberron setting, Sharn, the Lightning Rail etc. Our characters have developed extensive contacts with pretty much every major settlement on the map, in our endeavor to save the world

The only problem I really have is that the DM really seems to have an issue with letting our characters shop for specific things we want. The last time we had our 'shopping break' in between story arcs we were 17th level and were limited to buying only stuff of caster level up to 9th. So, we couldn't even find specific scrolls of higher than 4th level. Half of the party pretty much declared mutiny and we decided we were gonna sit in town for the 60 some odd days the DM said it would take to commission the stuff we wanted. If the world ended because of that, then tuff.

Most recently, we hit 19th level and had our next rest period where we could sell out crap and go shopping around. We were again limited to 9th caster level, so we had to commission and wait weeks just to get our +3 armor and whatnot upgraded. Except this time, I had acquired a Ring of Spell Storing. Pretty much my entire wish list was for buff scrolls that our party does not have access to since we don't have a bard or cleric. Righteous Might, Divine Power, Greater Heroism. So I'm seriously annoyed when the DM tells me that I can't find any of those scrolls, and our party 'face' was off doing his own thing, so I couldn't have use of his gather info rolls, nor could I use my +20something knowledge local. Hell, it took us a week to find the only 2 Hero's Feast scrolls in all of Sharn. And that is a spell specifically available as a spell casting service.

Being a primary melee character with a +13 BaB may have been my own doing, obviously, but its seriously annoying to be in a game world with flying ships and CR 20+ monsters running around all over the place where nobody higher than level 9 seem to be found. Grrrrr!

 

[Alexander123]

Our group usually crafts most of its stuff with the help of the artificer but I do understand that such situations can be a pain in the a**. Now your DM may be trying to create a sense of realism since people who can craft usually do not have highly magical goods lying around athough I do think that he has taken it too far. There are certain goods and services that should be available like spells and I don't place limits on what kind of items a player can buy although I would require a waiting period for a particularly expensive item since the crafter usually does not have such items lying around.

 

[Crust]

I'm running an Age of Worms game set in the Forgotten Realms. My group is between 18th and 20th level. I don't set caster level limits on purchasing magical items because there are enough NPCs in my campaign world to allow for a certain amount of higher level items, but I do force time and availability constraints on my PCs when they want to buy magical items. With as much gold as my players have, combined with a razor-sharp understanding of what items are needed in order to power game with the greatest efficiency, most cities in Faerun are unable to accommodate their tastes. It's a matter of role-playing that I make it difficult for my players to have the specific items they want when they want them. I understand that some players just want to subtract gold and pencil in the magical item without any fuss. That’s not what this DM wants, and it’s not about denying players what they want, even though the delay might feel like denial. It’s about creating a sense of realism at the gaming table. Magical items are rare, and my role-playing constraints reinforce that.

Scrolls are a similar story. Certainly my PCs aren’t going to be able to buy wish on a scroll let alone wish scrolls. Nor will they be able to purchase as many time stops and true resurrection scrolls as they can afford. Those scrolls don’t (and perhaps shouldn’t) grow on trees, and again, it’s an attempt at realism. Assuming that there are scores of archwizards crafting scrolls of 9th level spells for adventurers to make use of is a bit beyond what I want at my table. Archwizards have more important things to do than exist solely to make magical items for PCs.

The availability of magical items for PCs could (and perhaps should) dictate the availability of magical items to the general populace of any given city. If PCs can buy whatever they want and have access to those items on the day of purchase, does that also mean that the average shop owner has a level in wizard and has an array of blasting wands under his counter in case a robber shows up? Does the average housewife have access to magical rings and garments that allow her to clean her house, prepare meals magically, illuminate the house at night, create warmth in winter, and keep out burglars with arcane locks and glyphs? Are her children playing with magical toys? Does the family dog eat out of a doggie dish that magically replenishes his food three times a day? If PCs have full and total access to magical items, that might (and perhaps should) be an indication of the overall availability of magical items in the campaign world.

I create availability and time constraints to create realism and give my players the sense that their PCs have high-end tastes, and in order to satisfy those tastes, PCs must wait for customized magical items or items found outside the DMG.

 

[Alexander123]

Although a way not to be limited by such restraints is if you're playing in Eberron to have an Artificer craft items for you. That makes things much easier. And if you can grab a couple of feats to reduce gold and xp cost then you're set to go. If you can get the Extraordinary, Legendary and Exceptional Artisan feats plus the Magical Artisan feat from PgtF, then you can pretty much craft everything at 56.25% of the gold, xp and time cost. Not to mention that crafting an item is 50% cheaper and you are not limited by availability. As far as xp, the feats do alot to reduce the xp cost and in general I don't worry about the xp cost. I assume that I'll make it up in the long run, and in the long run I think this pays off much more than if you were going to buy the item.

Let's say you were going to buy a greater stone golem. Normally this would cost you 196000 gp to buy. It would require you to save all your money if you use WBL from lvl 12 until you are lvl 16. If you decide to craft it it only costs 105000 gp and 7840 xp which is much better than 196000. If you take the Magical, Exceptional, Extraordinary and Legendary Artisan feats your gp cost is reduced to 59063 gp and your xp cost is reduced to 4410 which is significantly less. Not to mention that people do not simply have shops with greater stone golems for you to purchase. Most likely you will have to commision it. Crafting it will take 110 days which with a dedicated wright crafting for you will allow you to adventure while the process is being completed. So in my opinion the way to overcome your situation is to have your party craft its own items which is probably not possible for your since you have already started the campaign but for a new campaign this would be my suggestion. And the enormous benefit you will gain from such a character pales in comparison to any xp which you will have to pay.

And I do agree that archmages have better things to do than to sit and craft scrolls although I would probably be a little more lenient but on the more expensive items they would definitely require commissioning.

 

[Bendraesar]

You do need to remember this is also Eberron. The Lord of Blades and Vol, two major villainous players in the game world, are only level 12 and 16 respectively. Hell, the only level 20 NPC mentioned is a Sentient Oak Tree Druid.

So if the big dogs of the setting are only mid-level, what are the chances of finding an abundance of high level goods on the open market?

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

If the DM's unwilling to change the levels of NPCs in the setting, it doesn't make much sense to hold an AoW game there, knowing it goes to level 20. That's just dumb, and horribly screws over noncasters.

 

[Bendraesar]

If the DM's unwilling to change the levels of NPCs in the setting, it doesn't make much sense to hold an AoW game there, knowing it goes to level 20. That's just dumb, and horribly screws over noncasters.

Why should the NPCs be boosted just to cater to the Players? Why are the Players even tackling the problem if there are plenty of 20+ NPCs who could rain down pure wrath on anyone threatening their world?

Eberron doesn't even really have Gods so I wonder how the DM explained Kyuss.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Why should the NPCs be boosted just to cater to the Players? Why are the Players even tackling the problem if there are plenty of 20+ NPCs who could rain down pure wrath on anyone threatening their world?

Because only the PCs are stupid brave enough to do it? Because the only level 20 casters left are the cowardly/miserly ones that'd rather just hang back in semi-retirement all day cranking out items and making a fortune to support their enormous palaces on pocket dimensions, their sumptuous feats, their harem of women or men...?

I don't know, every setting generally has NPCs of higher level, it's up to the DM why they aren't the ones saving the world.

And it's not catering the the PCs. At that level, the PCs have MILLIONS of gold. They're supposed to be able to get expensive items with it. The game is balanced around this, as noncasters require more magic items to be effective, while casters can largely replicate the effects of items with spells and just have less daily resources. And again, they don't need the items as much to begin with.

Eberron doesn't even really have Gods so I wonder how the DM explained Kyuss.

I wonder what the hell was keeping him in check the whole time the PCs were levelling 1-20 if the highest level NPC is 12? (I've never played the setting, if there's an obvious answer to that for one who has.)

 

[Bendraesar]

Because only the PCs are stupid brave enough to do it? Because the only level 20 casters left are the cowardly/miserly ones that'd rather just hang back in semi-retirement all day cranking out items and making a fortune to support their enormous palaces on pocket dimensions, their sumptuous feats, their harem of women or men...?

I don't know, every setting generally has NPCs of higher level, it's up to the DM why they aren't the ones saving the world.

And it's not catering the the PCs. At that level, the PCs have MILLIONS of gold. They're supposed to be able to get expensive items with it. The game is balanced around this, as noncasters require more magic items to be effective, while casters can largely replicate the effects of items with spells and just have less daily resources. And again, they don't need the items as much to begin with.



I wonder what the hell was keeping him in check the whole time the PCs were levelling 1-20 if the highest level NPC is 12? (I've never played the setting, if there's an obvious answer to that for one who has.)

Actually, your whole post is more or less answered by Eberron as a campaign setting.

The highest NPC is a 20 Druid and that's not counting all the True Dragons, Rakshasa, Demon Lords, Quori and Daelkyr and other Far Realm natives.

It's just that the big NPCs are mid to high level with middle grade ones rarely being above level 10. Eberron is rift with Steam-punk magic (to the point of having "trains", "street lamps" and air-ships) but those things aren't just bought off the street and are heavily regulated by the Houses. So it'll be hard naturally in the setting to buy high level goods if they even exist.

 

[irdeggman]

Right.

Eberron has "comercial" magic. Basically things that make life easier, not as much "true" magic as Faerun does.

Eberon does, however, have psionics and a built in other planer villain (see the Kalashtar's war of the shadows).

But regardless - if players expect everything in the DMG to be available "off the shelf" then I have major problems with that - in the AoW it was supposed to take them a while to even get to a place were higher level magic items are available at all.

The adventure path has several "stop points" where PCs are supposed to be able to sell off their stuff and craft magic items - it does not say that they are supposed to be able to "buy anything they want".