IronWolf
blank
I think in one of the books (or maybe it was from the Paizo forums) that there is mention of claiming land north of the road is apt to considered an act of aggression against the northern neighbors.
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Kingmaker: Your City and Kingdom
- Thread starter TarionzCousin
- Start date
I think in one of the books (or maybe it was from the Paizo forums) that there is mention of claiming land north of the road is apt to considered an act of aggression against the northern neighbors.
Crothian
First Post
It says that in the second book that introduces the kingdom building. The Varnhold book then also says that some of those top hexes can't be claimed for same reason.
We've nearly finished the entire AP (only have the final adventure left), but I'll try and limit my responses to the first kingdom building adventure to prevent too many spoilers.
A bit of background on my character (who became leader) and the group. It helps give some context for our decisions:
My character was an Oracle of Life, who happened to follow Cayden Cailean as well (didn't have to, didn't know if that's where his powers came from, but liked his ethos).
A bit of a drinker, and a self-proclaimed life of the party, I was the most charismatic, and thus defacto leader choice... though, I accepted being mostly figurehead, and led through advisors.
Our group basically met and became a group because we were the "stragglers" who hadn't come with anyone at the ceremony that gave us our charter.
1. Where your group built your first city and why;
Well, like most here, we built on the Staglord's fort area. There were many reasons:
- Half price castle.
- We could have water access, granting access to certain buildings more readily.
- Defensive features of the region (hill, water, back to a lake, etc)
- River access for trade and travel, etc.
- Did I mention half price castle?
2. The name of your first city and why;
Longshot
We were a primarily Chaotic Good group, and kind of ran with an "easygoing" style of leadership. We didn't want to upset the existing peoples, so made our nation primarily Erastil focused, with a Cayden slant. Very farming, community oriented, and letting people do mostly what they wanted.
We were trying to get as many people to come to our side in this endeavor, to the point of letting pretty much anyone join us.
The name plays on Erastil the archer (old Deadeye making a long arrow shot), but it also played on our "we don't really know what we are doing" feelings, and the name kind of reflected the odds we were giving ourselves to being successful.
3. The name of your kingdom and why you chose it;
Well, I had the outcast Noble background trait. A cousin to the Orlovsky family (specifically, my last name was Wazowsky). While the Orlovsky family is known for avoiding conflict (such as through diplomacy), my disgraced family background relied more on the "run away" side of conflict avoidance.
Disgusted with my own family (the reason I ran off to make my own name), I decided to literally create my own name, Sokolovsky (the "hawk" to Orlovsky's "eagle").
As such, I named the nation the kingdom of Sokol.
Our standard was a picture of a Hawk , wings and legs spread, with a couple arrows in one claw (Erastil) and a tankard in the other (Cayden), to represent our leanings
4. What you developed/built first;
We literally built our castle first.
After that, we built things that seemed appropriate for the type of people in our city (mill, smithy, exotic craftsman, etc) focusing mostly on economy and stability.
Tried to keep taxes low, etc.
We expanded fairly quickly as well. We built a town at Oleg's outpost (calling it Leventon, after his last name), in which he was mayor when he wasn't acting Treasurer while we were off galavanting and adventuring.
The group that wanted to set up camp and asked for build points worth of supplies around the tatselworm region was developed and annexed into a full blown town as well.
We made that one our trade city (they called it Tatselford), it had all the markets (and our first black market).
We also eventually built a more religious centre, moving that statue of Erastil to the holy grounds (that pool that you cleanse), and set up Johd as religious leader there. This was a bit later in the game though.
5. Whatever else you deem relevant, such as the locations of any subsequent cities or important structures.
Remember how I said we'd take in anyone? Well... I mean ANYONE.
Prior to kingdom building, we encountered some Mites and Kobolds. We didn't like the mites all that much (they attacked us first and we didn't like em), so when we encountered the Kobolds and parlayed with them, we offered to help rescue their captured and pretty much killed/ran out the rest of the mites, helping the Kobolds "win".
We also deposed the nasty shaman leader of the Kobolds (when he tried to turn on us), and basically handed the kobold tribe back to the cheiftan.
From then on, we had Kobold allies.
We let them have the mine, but since they were part of our nation, we got the economy from it. Actually, they were really accepted citizens of the nation. Despite more nasty leanings, they accepted our Good nation's rules because we gave them a measure of respect they didn't normally get from other races.
In fact, Chief Sootscales became our spymaster, and the kobold we saved: Micmac, kind of had a rotating position in office (as we moved around and had openings). We joked that he had a new hat for each position we were putting him in...
As our first act as a new nation (while the body of the Staglord still cooled, in fact), we gave amnesty to any remaining bandits: join us, help build the community, and past banditry would be forgiven. We did this because Akiros turned on the Staglord and basically helped us survive the Owlbear situation.
We ran into some lizardmen at one point that, under the cajoling of their "god figure", attacked us. We destroyed the attacking force.
We later found out that the attacking force had been all their strong males, and the remaining lizardmen women and young wandered the swamp during winter while being harassed by wisps.
They eventually sought aid from us as well (despite our leaders being the adventuring party that destroyed their tribe). We said "why not" and took them in.
I believe we also took in a small group of exiled frogmen as well (simply because they were friendly, and we were taking in everyone we could).
There were some fae we encountered as well, but we mostly paid them off in booze and good times, and just asked that they not harangue our nation with pranks and we'd make sure to let them do whatever they wanted otherwise.
We had quite the ragtag nation, filled with a lot of generally considered "bad" or nasty people, but it all seemed to work out okay.
.
Funny story time...
A little later in the game (around the Varnhold times), our adventuring turned out to last a little too long, and our group wouldn't make it back in time to do kingdom building for the month. It was our first long range travel adventure, and we didn't time it right.
Since we were at the right level, I had picked Leadership. Since we had the opening, I talked with the DM and we made the cohort my wife.
Not that I got married... but rather, I had in fact always been married, and I had wandered off to do my own thing while my elven bard celebrity wife (I was human) was doing her thing back in Brevoy.
As a funny retcon, the DM said I had written a short, unsigned letter (I wasn't a very proper leader) letting my wife know I had started a nation in the south, and asked her to please come take care of it while I was busy.
We came back to a nation that was surprisingly happier than before (our general had been assassinated, and I failed a bunch of leadership checks making our unrest skyrocket, right before we ran off).
This is when we found my admonishing wife running the nation in our stead, having found my "backup plan" (written on a bar napkin) to replace leadership roles with prominent members of the community, gaining us our kingdom phase.
This is when I also turned to the rest of the group and went "Oh yeah, this is my wife. I'm married, by the way".
Basically, my Leadership feat didn't get me a combat benefit, but a Queen for the nation, Kingdom building phase even if we weren't around, and a spellcaster (Bard) who could craft magic items while we were away.
Not too shabby.
The whole situation pretty much floored one of the other players (my RL brother), who had a hard time accepting the whole thing (in character). He kept asking my wife character what the heck she saw in me, to the point where she was getting offended, heh.
It didn't help that she knew Modify Memory (among many other very leadership oriented utility spells). The group had suspicions, but drunken notes and "forgetting" to mention a celebrity wife actually fit my character that they really didn't question it for long.
Good times...
A bit of background on my character (who became leader) and the group. It helps give some context for our decisions:
My character was an Oracle of Life, who happened to follow Cayden Cailean as well (didn't have to, didn't know if that's where his powers came from, but liked his ethos).
A bit of a drinker, and a self-proclaimed life of the party, I was the most charismatic, and thus defacto leader choice... though, I accepted being mostly figurehead, and led through advisors.
Our group basically met and became a group because we were the "stragglers" who hadn't come with anyone at the ceremony that gave us our charter.
1. Where your group built your first city and why;
Well, like most here, we built on the Staglord's fort area. There were many reasons:
- Half price castle.
- We could have water access, granting access to certain buildings more readily.
- Defensive features of the region (hill, water, back to a lake, etc)
- River access for trade and travel, etc.
- Did I mention half price castle?
2. The name of your first city and why;
Longshot
We were a primarily Chaotic Good group, and kind of ran with an "easygoing" style of leadership. We didn't want to upset the existing peoples, so made our nation primarily Erastil focused, with a Cayden slant. Very farming, community oriented, and letting people do mostly what they wanted.
We were trying to get as many people to come to our side in this endeavor, to the point of letting pretty much anyone join us.
The name plays on Erastil the archer (old Deadeye making a long arrow shot), but it also played on our "we don't really know what we are doing" feelings, and the name kind of reflected the odds we were giving ourselves to being successful.
3. The name of your kingdom and why you chose it;
Well, I had the outcast Noble background trait. A cousin to the Orlovsky family (specifically, my last name was Wazowsky). While the Orlovsky family is known for avoiding conflict (such as through diplomacy), my disgraced family background relied more on the "run away" side of conflict avoidance.
Disgusted with my own family (the reason I ran off to make my own name), I decided to literally create my own name, Sokolovsky (the "hawk" to Orlovsky's "eagle").
As such, I named the nation the kingdom of Sokol.
Our standard was a picture of a Hawk , wings and legs spread, with a couple arrows in one claw (Erastil) and a tankard in the other (Cayden), to represent our leanings
4. What you developed/built first;
We literally built our castle first.
After that, we built things that seemed appropriate for the type of people in our city (mill, smithy, exotic craftsman, etc) focusing mostly on economy and stability.
Tried to keep taxes low, etc.
We expanded fairly quickly as well. We built a town at Oleg's outpost (calling it Leventon, after his last name), in which he was mayor when he wasn't acting Treasurer while we were off galavanting and adventuring.
The group that wanted to set up camp and asked for build points worth of supplies around the tatselworm region was developed and annexed into a full blown town as well.
We made that one our trade city (they called it Tatselford), it had all the markets (and our first black market).
We also eventually built a more religious centre, moving that statue of Erastil to the holy grounds (that pool that you cleanse), and set up Johd as religious leader there. This was a bit later in the game though.
5. Whatever else you deem relevant, such as the locations of any subsequent cities or important structures.
Remember how I said we'd take in anyone? Well... I mean ANYONE.
Prior to kingdom building, we encountered some Mites and Kobolds. We didn't like the mites all that much (they attacked us first and we didn't like em), so when we encountered the Kobolds and parlayed with them, we offered to help rescue their captured and pretty much killed/ran out the rest of the mites, helping the Kobolds "win".
We also deposed the nasty shaman leader of the Kobolds (when he tried to turn on us), and basically handed the kobold tribe back to the cheiftan.
From then on, we had Kobold allies.
We let them have the mine, but since they were part of our nation, we got the economy from it. Actually, they were really accepted citizens of the nation. Despite more nasty leanings, they accepted our Good nation's rules because we gave them a measure of respect they didn't normally get from other races.
In fact, Chief Sootscales became our spymaster, and the kobold we saved: Micmac, kind of had a rotating position in office (as we moved around and had openings). We joked that he had a new hat for each position we were putting him in...
As our first act as a new nation (while the body of the Staglord still cooled, in fact), we gave amnesty to any remaining bandits: join us, help build the community, and past banditry would be forgiven. We did this because Akiros turned on the Staglord and basically helped us survive the Owlbear situation.
We ran into some lizardmen at one point that, under the cajoling of their "god figure", attacked us. We destroyed the attacking force.
We later found out that the attacking force had been all their strong males, and the remaining lizardmen women and young wandered the swamp during winter while being harassed by wisps.
They eventually sought aid from us as well (despite our leaders being the adventuring party that destroyed their tribe). We said "why not" and took them in.
I believe we also took in a small group of exiled frogmen as well (simply because they were friendly, and we were taking in everyone we could).
There were some fae we encountered as well, but we mostly paid them off in booze and good times, and just asked that they not harangue our nation with pranks and we'd make sure to let them do whatever they wanted otherwise.
We had quite the ragtag nation, filled with a lot of generally considered "bad" or nasty people, but it all seemed to work out okay.
.
Funny story time...
A little later in the game (around the Varnhold times), our adventuring turned out to last a little too long, and our group wouldn't make it back in time to do kingdom building for the month. It was our first long range travel adventure, and we didn't time it right.
Since we were at the right level, I had picked Leadership. Since we had the opening, I talked with the DM and we made the cohort my wife.
Not that I got married... but rather, I had in fact always been married, and I had wandered off to do my own thing while my elven bard celebrity wife (I was human) was doing her thing back in Brevoy.
As a funny retcon, the DM said I had written a short, unsigned letter (I wasn't a very proper leader) letting my wife know I had started a nation in the south, and asked her to please come take care of it while I was busy.
We came back to a nation that was surprisingly happier than before (our general had been assassinated, and I failed a bunch of leadership checks making our unrest skyrocket, right before we ran off).
This is when we found my admonishing wife running the nation in our stead, having found my "backup plan" (written on a bar napkin) to replace leadership roles with prominent members of the community, gaining us our kingdom phase.
This is when I also turned to the rest of the group and went "Oh yeah, this is my wife. I'm married, by the way".
Basically, my Leadership feat didn't get me a combat benefit, but a Queen for the nation, Kingdom building phase even if we weren't around, and a spellcaster (Bard) who could craft magic items while we were away.
Not too shabby.
The whole situation pretty much floored one of the other players (my RL brother), who had a hard time accepting the whole thing (in character). He kept asking my wife character what the heck she saw in me, to the point where she was getting offended, heh.
It didn't help that she knew Modify Memory (among many other very leadership oriented utility spells). The group had suspicions, but drunken notes and "forgetting" to mention a celebrity wife actually fit my character that they really didn't question it for long.
Good times...
Last edited:
Kaodi
Hero
Do later adventures have any rules for developing hexes that are primarily covered by water? Because I was thinking that it would probably make sense to be able to develop a water hex like a farm if it is adjacent to a city with a pier, or if it adjacent to a hex that is adjacent with a waterfront.
Crothian
First Post
Nope, the books are rather limited in what they do and allow. I say go for it, it's a good idea.
TarionzCousin
Second Most Angelic Devil Ever
I ran Citadel of Pain for our group after the first module. As a result of the choices the group made, they freed about 150 monstrous humanoids: troglodytes, ogres, minotaurs, goblins, hobgoblins, and bugbears. Most of those monsters came to live in our first city.
Satin Knights
First Post
I highly recommend the supplemental book from Jon Brazer Enterprises "Book of the River Nations ~ Complete Player's Reference for Kingdom Building".
It adds around 25% more building types, developments outside city squares, and an expanded section on the mass combat rules. A "Camp" for fishing is the way this book deals with harvesting a water hex. The book also contains a section of feats and spells for mass combat. Overall, it adds "25% more" to all the rules that the player would need for his/her kingdom building process.
TarionzCousin
Second Most Angelic Devil Ever
I bought this and our DM has been using it. It adds significantly more options to the city-building experience.
Derfmancher
First Post
I think that sounds like an outstanding resource Satin Knights!
As I said in another post (link below) I am getting ready to start running Kingmaker with a rather large group(8). I am pretty new at DMing in general, but I appear to be the one most excited out of all of us, and the best at it out of the group. (We have run a few one shots, and a mini-campaign I laid out.)
I am quite excited to see where my players set up their city, and plan to post it here when they do.
http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/320003-would-you-quit-game-if.html#post5858395
As I said in another post (link below) I am getting ready to start running Kingmaker with a rather large group(8). I am pretty new at DMing in general, but I appear to be the one most excited out of all of us, and the best at it out of the group. (We have run a few one shots, and a mini-campaign I laid out.)
I am quite excited to see where my players set up their city, and plan to post it here when they do.
http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/320003-would-you-quit-game-if.html#post5858395
Drowbane
First Post
After reading these posts, I'm feeling a bit put off. See, my DM didn't give us the option to build our first city on the Stag Lord's Keep. He drew up a huge map and that place was expressly off the edge of the paper.
I didn't even know that location was an option until I read your replies. It's the obvious starting location.
When we killed the Stag Lord I mentioned "hey, we should totally rennovate this place". And then when it came time to build, the Keep was not on the map.
Thats ok, Stag Lord's will be our next city, for our Southern Border.
Having our capital close to our Silver and Gold mines isn't a bad thing... and I'm sure the Stag Lord's keep is going to need to recleared out (yay, xp!).
Our Kingdom demographics are something like:
45% Aes Sidhe (home brewed elves from an alternate Prime Material)
40% Citadel of Pain refugees (ogres, minotaurs, goblinoids, and troglodytes)
15% Standard races (need to break that down further), mostly Brevoyan refugees
??% Sootscale Kobolds: not officially part of the kingdom yet, need to work on that.
Ruler: my fey PC had the highest Cha and a background in nobility, so he was made Ruler.
* Prince Amaranth Sellador, Lord of the Summer court - Aes Sidhe Druidic Warlock type. (bonus ruler: Queen Arinthalas Tyriel, Queen of the Winter Court - Aes Sidhe Druidic Swordsage type. "Winter is coming...")
Grand Diplomat: 2nd highest Cha - Rilel (Tarionzcousin) - Aasimar Bard | Warlock type
Spy Master: when not performing his diplomatic duties, Rilel is our Spy Master. The populace of course has no inkling of this.
Warden: Roland - Human Gunslinger | Paladin
Marshal: Orge - 1/2 orc Fighter | Rogue
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