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King's Castle Effect
- Thread starter Maleketh
- Start date
Prestidigitalis
First Post
Since it doesn't use the words slide, shift or move, I'd say it's none of them.
Just as use of a keyword brings certain rules into play, the absence of a keyword means those rules don't apply. In this case, I believe silence speaks loudly.
The change of positions could still have results, such as automatic damage for starting one's turn in a square. But such results don't require any special wording in the power description.
Just as use of a keyword brings certain rules into play, the absence of a keyword means those rules don't apply. In this case, I believe silence speaks loudly.
The change of positions could still have results, such as automatic damage for starting one's turn in a square. But such results don't require any special wording in the power description.
Maleketh
First Post
That doesn't really answer the question at hand, though. Being grabbed means you're immobilized; being immobilized means you can't move, but you can teleport or be moved by a push, pull, or slide. If the king's castle switch is none of these, how does it interact with being immobilized?
Old_school_overlord
First Post
As a GM adjudication I'd say they can still move if Immobilised, but not if restrained or grabbed. I can't say I have any great rules backing for this though.
I would put this under voluntary movement - that is, its similar to a shift, and therefore both parties would need to be able to move. However, unlike a shift, it would not trigger any enemy's ability that requires a shift if that makes sense. Another advantage is that it ignores difficult terrain (unlike a shift). So there are advantages and disadvantages
My main reasoning is that it requires a willing ally. Thus your ally is willing to trade places with you which suggests that both people need to move.
Ultimately, this is one of those corner cases where each DM will likely need to adjudicate their own ruling.
My main reasoning is that it requires a willing ally. Thus your ally is willing to trade places with you which suggests that both people need to move.
Ultimately, this is one of those corner cases where each DM will likely need to adjudicate their own ruling.
DarkLord Of DForce
First Post
So how would OA's work here?
I mean, if you leave a threatened square, during the switch, and its not a shift, or a teleport, then do OA's happen?
Just curious.
I mean, if you leave a threatened square, during the switch, and its not a shift, or a teleport, then do OA's happen?
Just curious.
Good question. No simple answer.
Since there is no quantified movment happening (or at least spelled out) - and the only word used to indicate movement is "switch places" I'd likely rule that there is no OA.
In the end, does this ruling break anything? No. Is it reasonable, yes. Is my interpretation unique in that sense that it doesn't follow forced movement or shifting? Yes. I can't think of too many other powers that cause simultaneous movement. The few that do, seem to indicate the movement of swtiching places just happens ignoring how it happens and what effects that movement has. Looking at the Compendium, the Power, Leaders Intercession, is an Immediate Interrupt that lets you switch places with an ally and take the damage of the hit. It simply ignores how it happens and the consequences of it. I'd say that is simply the best approach here.
Like I mentioned before, there will be considerable table variation with this one.
Edit - There is even one instance with an item where you and an enemy switch places. Trying to quantify the whole shift/slide, OA issue gets even messier. The more I think of swtiching places the more it seems that you exist at your starting point, and then exist at the ending point - almost like a teleport (not that I am claming that - just using it as an example of how this movement is similar to).
Since there is no quantified movment happening (or at least spelled out) - and the only word used to indicate movement is "switch places" I'd likely rule that there is no OA.
In the end, does this ruling break anything? No. Is it reasonable, yes. Is my interpretation unique in that sense that it doesn't follow forced movement or shifting? Yes. I can't think of too many other powers that cause simultaneous movement. The few that do, seem to indicate the movement of swtiching places just happens ignoring how it happens and what effects that movement has. Looking at the Compendium, the Power, Leaders Intercession, is an Immediate Interrupt that lets you switch places with an ally and take the damage of the hit. It simply ignores how it happens and the consequences of it. I'd say that is simply the best approach here.
Like I mentioned before, there will be considerable table variation with this one.
Edit - There is even one instance with an item where you and an enemy switch places. Trying to quantify the whole shift/slide, OA issue gets even messier. The more I think of swtiching places the more it seems that you exist at your starting point, and then exist at the ending point - almost like a teleport (not that I am claming that - just using it as an example of how this movement is similar to).
Last edited:
Whimsical
Explorer
This situation is covered in the Player's Handbook. Although it can be hard to find because it doesn't involve forced movement.
The last part of the Push, Pull, & Slide Forced Movement section (pg. 286) states:
So, you shift; your target slides.
This is important for my Warlord because his Polearm Master paragon class ability Forceful Reach allows him to slide his target one extra square when using the Leaf on the Wind power, and also to leave him Prone with the Polearm Momentum feat.
The last part of the Push, Pull, & Slide Forced Movement section (pg. 286) states:
D&D Player's Handbook said:
So, you shift; your target slides.
This is important for my Warlord because his Polearm Master paragon class ability Forceful Reach allows him to slide his target one extra square when using the Leaf on the Wind power, and also to leave him Prone with the Polearm Momentum feat.
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