Knockdown

[MorganKiller]

Hello everybody...
I'd like to know what do you think about the minimum damage needed to knock the opponent down (well, to try at least) with the Knockdown feat.
In my opinion it's far too low.
Since we play an hybrid campaign between 3.0 and 3.5 I allowed its use, but I think it needs some math to make it just a good feat and not a wonderful one. The character who is going to take this feat is a falchion-using fighter, with his 19 str and weapon specialization he ha a minimum damage of 10 per attack. Yes, he would roll for a knockdown attempt on every hit at 6th level...

I first thought about a limit of 15 or 20 damage before the grapple check, what do you think?
(Btw we use the 3.5edition power attack rules)
Thanks!

 

[darkmentor]

here is how i work knockdown. first off it depends on the weapon,a solid shot with a slashing or piercing weapon doesnt knock a target down, so i limited it to bludgeoning weapons, then i used the spycraft varient which is: on a hit the target must make a reflex save DC= 10 + damage dealt or fall down, incidentally i redid the equpment list so that some weapons have weapon finness and some have knockdown. I mean think about it, some dumbass with a 20 pound sledge does not need a feat or critical to knock u down. thats just dumb. Its a principle of the weapon not the user

 

[GlassJaw]

Overall, I don't really like the feat. It has a large potential to be abused.

on a hit the target must make a reflex save DC= 10 + damage dealt or fall down

Well there is already a mechanic built-into the feat to resist falling down and that's the opposed trip attempt. I don't think changing that mechanic is the answer.

a solid shot with a slashing or piercing weapon doesnt knock a target down, so i limited it to bludgeoning weapons

I don't think the type of weapon should be as much of a factor as the size. Why would a light hammer have more of a chance to knock someone down than a greatsword or greataxe? Even a spear thrust could knock someone off their feet.

I think limiting it to large, two-handed weapons only might be better.

Another idea I had was making Knockdown a special maneuver. You could require a full-round action to attempt a Knockdown. The advantage is that the user can attempt a trip without preventing AoO's (and thus not needing Int 13, Combat Expertise, and Imp Trip) and without needing a special trip weapon. They do normal damage (which you could possibly raise to 15 or 20) and then get to make a free trip attempt.

For this feat, I would probably make the req's BAB, Str, and Power Attack.

 

[Thanee]

some ideas

Using damage is kinda weird anyways. What does the heat from a flaming weapon add to knockdown capacity, for example? You might want to restrict it to base damage from the weapon (even w/o enhancement bonus) and Str only. Ok, Weapon Specialization, too, just because it makes sense that fighters training in the use of a specific weapon also get better at these things. Shouldn't be hard to single that out. So, if that damage reaches 10 or more, then you can do the free trip.

The reflex save sounds like a good idea, basically, however it has the problem, that fighters then are bad at resisting knockdown, which they really should not be. So the grapple check is probably better, also since it does take size into consideration.

Slashing weapons can definitely be used in a way, that would knock a person down, but bludgeoning weapons should probably make it easier.

I would change the attacker's check according to damage type.
i.e. Bludgeoning +4, Piercing -4, or something like that (+2 / -2 maybe, so it's not such a big factor).

Also maybe give a -4 when using a light weapon and a +4 when using a two-handed weapon. Or make it -8 for light, -4 for one-handed and normal for a two-handed weapon, if you don't want to make it too easy.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Darklone]

I never liked the feat, mainly because there's no real reason why that game mechanic should be different from Improved Trip.