D&D 5E Knocked unconscious in water

[delphonso]

So, I'm working on a short, first level adventure for some friends. One of the things I want to include is a dangerous terrain fight. Here's what I'm thinking:

In waist high water, there's a weak water weird (reskinned dust mephit, since this is 1st level.) Now, dust mephit has sleep as an innate spell. This raises two questions for me:

First, the hold breath rules are bonkers, so what would you do if a PC is reduced to 0 in waist-high water? Right now, I'm thinking death saves at disadvantage, but that feels pretty punishing when I just want this to be tense, not impossible.

Second, the sleep spell lasts a minute - basically no PC would drown in a minute, RAW. You also don't take damage from drowning, so a PC with Con of 11(hold breath for 30 seconds) would have zero chance of survival if everyone gets knocked out. Is there a more interesting way to handle this?

If you've got any advice on making water a threat, specifically drowning a threat, I'd love to hear it.
If all else fails, I'll just swap sleep with blur and make it a tough fight in difficult terrain.

 

[Phazonfish]

Holding your breath is a conscious effort, a sleeping creature would not be able to do this. According to the PHB section on suffocating, once they can no longer hold their breath (which is instantly in this case) if they are underwater for more rounds than their Con mod (min 1) they instantly hit 0 hp and begin making death saves.

 

[Todd Roybark]

As above, but if a player fails a death save, allow a Saving Throw against sleep. On a second failed Death Save allow the S.T. against sleep w/ advantage.

It is 1st level after all.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Interesting.

First, you can't really use the rules for holding your breath. When you fall unconscious, your body will try to breath normally, even if that means drowning. So, I would throw those out the window.

Second, even if you run out of air/drown, you can be resuscitated for up to 5 minutes or so and possibly live. Now, most people won't go that long, but it is possible. If a character eventually dies from drowning, I would allow a DC 15 or 20 Wisdom (Medicine) check to resuscitate them.

But, you are also talking about sleep. I would maybe do something like you take 1d6 damage from the drowning and then wake up (since you took damage) after a single round as they will sputter and spit the water out. Remember, HP is not just about meat damage, anyone who has swallowed water the wrong way and gone down their airways knows it is a traumatic experience. A reduction in HP can represent this.

If the character hits 0 hit points and falls under the water, death saves IMO won't save them. Even if they roll a natural 20, they will still drown and die eventually unless saved. So, I would let them roll, and if they stabilize, reset the saves and start it over, etc. Like I said, eventually they will die unless saved, but this option gives them the chance for lasting longer if they keep making saves and stabilizing repeatedly.

Finally, have them roll saves in secret away from other players. IMO unless other characters make a Wisdom (Medicine) check to determine how close to dying a comrade is, the player should not know.

 

[delphonso]

Cheers guys - I like these ideas already. Especially the hidden death saves. That sort of tense experience is what I'm looking for.

I had trouble finding rules for lack of oxygen. All the underwater stuff in the DMG assumes water breathing, and in the PHB we get those breath holding rules. Didn't think to look for suffocation.

I might do a mix of these for the sleep effect. I think death saves at their current health level and giving a check on failed saves makes sense. I might hit them with a d6 of damage on waking up, or - if KOed - allow resuscitation with a medicine check and return them to their pre-sleep HP.

This is all assuming they even go into the water. You know how PCs are.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Cheers guys - I like these ideas already. Especially the hidden death saves. That sort of tense experience is what I'm looking for.

I had trouble finding rules for lack of oxygen. All the underwater stuff in the DMG assumes water breathing, and in the PHB we get those breath holding rules. Didn't think to look for suffocation.

I might do a mix of these for the sleep effect. I think death saves at their current health level and giving a check on failed saves makes sense. I might hit them with a d6 of damage on waking up, or - if KOed - allow resuscitation with a medicine check and return them to their pre-sleep HP.

This is all assuming they even go into the water. You know how PCs are.

Yeah, I know how PCs are (both being a DM and a player often)!

Tracking Death Saves in secret really does make it a more intense experience. Our table has been doing it for a while. The DM has the player choose one of their own d20s and rolls it behind the DM screen so the DM and player see it. The DM uses a counter/token to mark success or fail.

We had an encounter with a black dragon in its lair and it used its water and lair effects to drag PCs into the pool. It made the challenge really interesting having to manage the battle and the environment. If you pull it off well, your players will definitely remember it!

 

[Charlaquin]

Yeah, I know how PCs are (both being a DM and a player often)!

Tracking Death Saves in secret really does make it a more intense experience. Our table has been doing it for a while. The DM has the player choose one of their own d20s and rolls it behind the DM screen so the DM and player see it. The DM uses a counter/token to mark success or fail.

We had an encounter with a black dragon in its lair and it used its water and lair effects to drag PCs into the pool. It made the challenge really interesting having to manage the battle and the environment. If you pull it off well, your players will definitely remember it!

I’m considering doing something similar with death saves myself.

 

[Oofta]

In real life you do not automatically drown immediately if unconscious. I'd also add that you start dying in D&D from drowning after you've been holding your breath for a while.

From Wikipedia on drowning

Spoiler: relevant text

When water enters the larynx or trachea, both conscious and unconscious persons experience laryngospasm, in which the vocal cords constrict, sealing the airway. This prevents water from entering the lungs. Because of this laryngospasm, in the initial phase of drowning, water generally enters the stomach and very little water enters the lungs. Though laryngospasm prevents water from entering the lungs, it also interferes with breathing. In most persons, the laryngospasm relaxes some time after unconsciousness

Of course D&D isn't reality, but personally I wouldn't have them drown immediately. You can always set up a scenario to kill PCs, but is it fun?

So I'd do something like @dnd4vr, take 1d6 damage and wake up. But I'd also make them incapacitated (no actions or reactions but they can still move to stand) as they cough and sputter. They get a con save at the end of their turn or if they get magical healing. Either reduce the DC of the save every round or they just automatically save after a couple of rounds.

That way it adds some difficulty and tension, but it's not "Ba-wah-ha-ha I am a mighty DM who will kill you all!"

 

[delphonso]

Yeah, I definitely don't want to kill anyone - but I want that threat to be on the table. In the past, I've been an overly protective GM - I had a 6 month long campaign with three players and only 2 KOs the whole time. So I'm trying to up my difficulty in encounters a bit.

I think the suggestion of a bit of damage and the reality of how drowning works will play well together. That also supports the resuscitation if knocked out, without a real risk of death.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Yeah, I definitely don't want to kill anyone - but I want that threat to be on the table. In the past, I've been an overly protective GM - I had a 6 month long campaign with three players and only 2 KOs the whole time. So I'm trying to up my difficulty in encounters a bit.

I think the suggestion of a bit of damage and the reality of how drowning works will play well together. That also supports the resuscitation if knocked out, without a real risk of death.

Wow, our DM tries to kill us all off at least once per session!

Seriously though, I am glad everyone's advice helped. Situations like this arise from time to time and there is very little in 5E for how to rule it. Of course, this is by design so each table can play it out as they see fit.

Personally, for me it is one of the major pitfalls of 5E's design. I would rather have the rules presented to be changed if desired instead of being left up to people without the design experience and resources to develop and play-test rules to try to create them on their own.