Kobold Adept4 - Balanced CR1?

[Kalendraf]

As I was flipping thru my MM, I spied this entry under Kobold.

Challenge Rating: Kobolds with levels in NPC classes have a CR equal to their character level –3.

I rarely use kobolds, and I almost never apply NPC class levels to anything. But this -3 was just too tempting, so I decided to investigate. Is it justifed?

(Note: Goblins have a similar CR adjustment of -2)

With a kobold warrior4, it seems justified. The kobold's racial mod gives it -4 strength and a -2 con, and small size limits it to small-sized weapons. AC will be improved (+2 dex and small size), and the 4 levels of warrior will give it +4 BAB, 4d8 hit dice along with an extra feat. But all that doesn't look to be too great of a problem. IMHO, a party of four 1st level PC's should be able to handle a kobold warrior4 w/o major difficulty and it likely is an honest-to-goodness CR1 encounter.

Similarly, I don't see a Kobold Expert4, Aristocrat4 or Commoner4 posing any major problems either. The expert and aristocrat will have some additional skill points compared to the warrior4, but that isn't likely to make for an unbalanced encounter.

Finally, I looked at adept. This is where the warning bells started going off. While an adept4 will only have a few 1st level spells and possibly a bonus 2nd level one, the spellcaster level is still 4. One of the spells an adept can take is Burning Hands. A 4th level burning hands spell deals 4d4 (avg of 10 damage) in a 15' cone. Too me, that seems pretty deadly for a mere CR1 encounter.

As per the suggestions in the MM, the creature should just use the non-elite array. For a kobold Adept, the stats would probably be as follows:
STR: 4 (8 -4) DEX: 14 (12 +2) CON: 9 (11 -2) INT: 10 WIS: 14 (13 +1 for 4th level stat bump) CHA: 9

As a result, the DC vs. burning hands is DC 13 which is probably a 50/50 at best for many 1st level characters. With a first level bonus spell, this kobold could potentially cast it 3 times per day. In addition, this kobold adept4 will have sufficient wisdom to gain a bonus 2nd level spell. Among the choices are some rather nasty things like Web or Scorching Ray.

Too me, this seems way out of line for a mere CR1. I could easily see this Kobold Adept 4 unleashing a TPK on a 1st level party. My gut is telling me that the CR rule only should apply for non-adept NPC classes.

Thoughts?

 

[Jolly Giant]

I can only agree with you on this one. While a kobold warrior 4 is ok as CR1 encounter, an adept 4 should be at least CR2; possibly even CR3.

Edit: Thinking about it, I'm starting to feel more and more that the warrior should be CR2 and the adept CR3.

 

[Jolly Giant]

Kobold warrior 4:

STR 8, DEX 16 (including lvl 4 stat-increase), CON 9, INT 9, WIS 10, CHA 8

Feats: Improved Initiative, Weapon Finesse
Possessions: MW Shortsword, MW Heavy Shield, MW Breastplate, MW Light Crossbow, Vest of Resistance +1 (2000gp, for a CR2 NPC)

With this build, the kobold has:

HP: 14
Initiative: +7
AC: 22 (+1 size, +3 DEX, +2 shield, +5 armor, +1 NA)
F/R/W: 4/5/2
Shortsword: +10 melee (1D4-1, 19-20/x2)
Crossbow: +9 ranged (1D6, 19-20/x2)

This certainly doesn't look like a CR1 encounter to me! Well, it isn't; since the kobold has the equipment of a CR2 NPC... However, if you remove his Vest of Resistance and give him non-MW shield and armor, then he has CR1 NPC equipment and he still looks at least CR2, IMHO. He'd just get -1 to all saves and +2 armor check penalty, after all.

A lvl 1 fighter very rarely has more than +5 -often less- on his attack (STR 16, MW weapon, Weapon Focus). In other words, he'd need to roll 17 or better to hit. With the kobolds 14 hp, the fighter would probably need at least 2 hits or a critical to bring the kobold down. Even then he might need to be lucky when rolling for damage!

The kobold on the other hand, should have a better than 50/50 chance of hitting with each attack. He won't deal that much damage, but with his +4 size bonus to hide he might very well earn him a surprise attack on the PCs, and with +7 on initiative he's likely to go first (or at least early) after the surprise round.

The combat might go something like this:

Surprice round: Kobold fires crossbow. Round 1: Kobold charges with his sword.

He'd have a fair chance of taking out lvl 1 wiz/sor/bard/rogue before any of the PCs get to do anything... In other words, he's not a CR1 encounter.

 

[Darkness]

Moved to Rules.

A bugbear is CR 2: hp 16; Init +1; AC 17; Atk +5 melee (1d8+2); SV 2/4/1

An ogre is CR 3: large size; hp 29; Init -1; AC 16; Atk +8 melee (2d8+7); SV 6/0/1

The kobold War4 is a bit stronger than the gnoll, but not as strong as the ogre. He's also subject to charm person and other spells that only work on humanoids. (The gnoll is, too.)

Further:

A wolf is CR 1: hp 13; Init +2; AC 14; Atk +3 melee (1d6+1); SA trip; SV 5/5/1

An ape is CR 2: hp 29; Init +2; AC 14; Atk +7 melee (1d6+5 [x2]) and +2 melee (1d6+2); SV 6/6/2

Worg (CR 2): hp 30; Init +2; AC 14; Atk +7 melee (1d6+4); SA trip; SV 6/6/3

Troglodyte (CR 1): hp 13; Init -1; AC 15; Atk +1 melee (1d6) and -1 melee (1d4) and -1 melee (1d4); SA stench; SV 5/-1/0


Hm. Considering the kobold's AC and to hit bonuses, I think CR 1 is a bit low. Now, CR 2 creatures (ape, worg) often have twice as many hp, hit just as well, and do more damage but they also have a much lower AC. Still, his AC is hard to beat for a low-level party so CR 2 sounds reasonable IMO.

 

[Jolly Giant]

Good comparisons, Darkness! As you said, the CR2 critters have twice the hp and deal more damage than the kobold; but they can't match his attack modifier and they're nowhere near his AC!

Having once DMed a kobold rogue PC, I've learned not to underestimate the little blighters! Factoring in +2 DEX, size and +1 natural armor they get a total of +3 to AC and +2 on attacks (with Weapon Finesse). That helps a lot, especially on low levels.

Edit: We've completely forgotten about that adept, havn't we? I'm still thinking CR2, or maybe 3, for him...

 

[Darkness]

Good comparisons, Darkness! As you said, the CR2 critters have twice the hp and deal more damage than the kobold; but they can't match his attack modifier and they're nowhere near his AC!

Yeah, they don't hit quite as well, just almost...
Most troubling is his AC. The worst a 1st-level PC can generally do is: Half-orc Bbn1, Str 22 (16+2race+4rage) = +7 to hit. On a charge, he hits on 14+. Sure, a Str 18 base character with bless and Weapon Focus hits on 11+, but such characters aren't good examples for CR estimation purposes.

Also, the bugbear has about his stats (much less AC, but still) and is CR 2 so the little bastard should be CR 2 as well.


As for the adept...

As y'all mentioned above, Burning hands, CL 4, Save DC 13 can slaughter a 1st-level party if they have some bad luck. (10 dmg average on a failed save) And at his Wis, he can prepare two of them.

Then again... His AC is, what, 16 or so? (2dex+1size+3armor - 'cause mw studded leather requires no AP. If not me, take leather for 1 less AC or studded leather for a -1 penalty.)
The aforementioned charging half-orc PC hits that on 9+ (7+ in rage but I wouldn't waste the Rage here unless there's more enemies or the situation is dire). A Str 16 dwarf Ftr on a 10+ (when charging) assuming he has neither WF nor a mw weapon.
The kobold Adp has 4*(3.5-1)=10 hp on the average. 13 if he takes Toughness. Either way, one average hit by a tank PC and he goes splat (Str 16 + greatsword = 2d6+4, or 11 average. Str 18 greataxe does 1d12+6, or 12.5 avg.)

A 2nd-level party can take his best spell (generally; sor/wiz and wounded chars possibly not). It's still a major hp drain but on the other hand, it's only if they don't kill him first (unlikely) and they won't need to use up spells (except for healing, in which case the hp loss is of course no longer an issue).

So... CR 2 sounds good to me - someone in a lvl 2 party will win initiative and then can either kill him or maybe prepare to disrupt his spellcasting.

CR 3 comparison:

Hell hound: hp 22; Init +5; AC 16; Atk +5 melee (1d8+1 plus 1d6 fire); breath weapon (10' cone every 2d4 rounds, 2d6 dmg, SV DC 13 for half); fire subtype; SV 5/5/4

Yep, tougher than the kobold. This critter can hold its own in melee as well, though its fire damage is a bit lower (7 vs. 10 avg) and the area seems to be smaller too.
The main difference here is the kobold's relative vulnerability. IMO, the hell hound's better hp and saves (and spd of 40' and Run feat) really help keeping it alive long enough to do some damage. Also, its breath can't be interrupted.

 

[Kalendraf]

When I looked at the Kobold Warrior4, I totally overlooked a feat like Weapon Finesse which can obviously lead to a huge BAB for this little bugger. I saw that he could have a high AC, but it didn't look like he'd have much of an attack. The feat obviously changes it up. I also neglected to factor in NPC equipment value for a 4th level character which will obviously help even more. Then again, wealth can be campaign specific, so I was mostly just looking at the raw stats for this.

Instead of a short sword may as well shoot straight for a Rapier. Same damage as the short sword and allows crits that much more often, plus it works with Weapon Finesse.

Although that d4-1 isn't exactly scary, once you factor in the high AC and the decent hit points, you can see just how difficult it may be for a 1st level party to handle it. It's going to nickle'n'dime them death...or maybe in this case penny'n'nickle them death.

In regards to Warrior4, I fully agree with the CR2 assessment...which basically means that the -3 statement in the book is the problem. A value like -2 is probably more on track.

As for the Adept4, I'd say it's probably a CR3. For comparison, IMHO the Kobold Adept4 is about on par with a Wiz3. The adept doesn't get as many spells per day, but the extra caster level and d6 hit points make up for that somewhat. Having the ability to dishout 4d4 via burning hands or 4d6 with scorching ray seems too strong for a CR2.

 

[Jolly Giant]

His AC is, what, 16 or so? (2dex+1size+3armor - 'cause mw studded leather requires no AP

Don't forget the +1 natural armor! That adept could also afford a +1 buckler for another +2 AC (still no AP), bringing his AC up to 19. Or he could drop the armor and cast Mage Armor instead, for yet another +1 AC...

 

[Darkness]

As for the Adept4, I'd say it's probably a CR3. For comparison, IMHO the Kobold Adept4 is about on par with a Wiz3. The adept doesn't get as many spells per day, but the extra caster level and d6 hit points make up for that somewhat.

The Adp's higher HD is balanced out by his lower Con. (What's more, the Wiz gets max hp at 1st level.)

The Wiz3 has higher stats (and better equipment).
A kobold Wiz3 right out of the DMG has Str 6, Dex 16, Con 11, Int 15, Wis 12, Cha 8.


Still, I can see CR 3 for the Adp4. IMO, he's a high 2 but a 3 isn't unreasonable.

 

[Jolly Giant]

Instead of a short sword may as well shoot straight for a Rapier. Same damage as the short sword and allows crits that much more often, plus it works with Weapon Finesse.

Absolutely. I just feel shortswords suit them better. My own little flavor-thing...

In regards to Warrior4, I fully agree with the CR2 assessment...which basically means that the -3 statement in the book is the problem. A value like -2 is probably more on track.

Agreed. Never underestimate the little barking lizardfolk!