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Kobolds Are Supposed To Be Pathetic Combatants

Agamon

Adventurer
Unless you are planning to throw kobolds at your party for every fight until the end of time, why is it so boring to let the fighter just instakill things once in a while?

To me, that would seem like an awesome change of pace.

That's a good point. The problem here might be that someone's first exposure to this game might be against the kobolds, and the resulting reaction is that fighters are dull.

Fight some gobos first, then orcs, and afterwords you'll be happy you can insta-slay kobolds.
 

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satori01

First Post
I don't know where all this Reaper hatred comes from....the mechanic is just a lower powered version of the 4E Executioner (Assasin) ability.

If you are at 3 HP or less the Slayer is going to kill you...hit or miss.

It is all about describing it, when it happens.


Think Darth Vader in Episode III, mowing down the Seperatists on Mustafar,

OR

Clint Eastwood in the final Gun Fight in Unforgiven.


The Slayer is someone so deadly, so effective at killing, they ARE going to hurt you...no matter what.


I found it to be effective against Ogres.....The Fighter, used Surge twice in a row...and missed 2 of the 4 attacks against the Ogre, and the player commented that they felt good about the 6 Dmg ( out of the 40 dmg they did) frome the Theme, made a difference..as it put the Ogre below the Sleep spell HP threshold;which the Wizard then cast.

Coup de Grace next round.

Describe a miss as a Fighter going in a doing a Mike Tyson to the Ogre's Ear...the player is going to like the Theme.
 
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Falling Icicle

Adventurer
Kobolds are supposed to be pathetic combatants. The Minions of 1st-level characters in 5e. This makes it all the sweeter when they turn the tables!

Minions in 4e never take damage from missed attacks. I don't have a problem with capable PCs one-shotting a typical kobold as long as they hit. The problem is that slayers and magic missiles can kill them no matter what.
 

Minigiant

Legend
Supporter
Know what, even if a kobold makes the save for Burning hands, they die.

15ft cone of inta-death. Lure all the kobolds into a hall and kill them all with one spell.
 

Stalker0

Legend
Know what, even if a kobold makes the save for Burning hands, they die.

15ft cone of inta-death. Lure all the kobolds into a hall and kill them all with one spell.

Maybe that description can help appease the issues with Reaper.

Don't think of a reaper as simply swinging the sword. he is swinging it with a furry of wide arching swings that literally fill an area with blows. So just like an area attack, you are always going to take some pain.
 

Tovec

Explorer
Since when? My groups slayer nearly died both when fighting the rats AND when fighting the first group of kobolds(within the cave)! the cleric had to prop him up several times!
NEARLY died. When surround by opponents on every square at first level you shouldn't NEARLY die, you should die.

So? The slayer is a trained killing machine, I don't see the problem with him taking out 1 kobold a round - even at first level.
The problem is that this doesn't represent training. The fighter's +2 on weapon damage represents training. This represents that no matter what the fighter is able to get damage in... for some reason. It is the "for some reason" I take objection to. It is the fact that EVERY TIME, no matter what, doesn't matter if they are drunk off their ass or poisoned or anything, as long as they have STR 16 they will KO a kobold WHEN THEY MISS.

Kobolds are weak individually, they are not weak on their home turf (traps etc.) and when they outnumber the party significantly - and this is as it should be!
But as you just pointed out in the post up until here. They AREN'T dangerous in numbers. They aren't dangerous to that fighter because even on a miss he is killing them dead. As pointed out earlier he may as well not bother rolling and could point at the kobold and just tell the DM that it dies - because he does 3 on a miss, no matter what.

If this is the problem as you see it, then it seems there is no problem. Even pathetic mooks are very dangerous in numbers.

BUT THEY AREN'T. The part of the post you quoted shows that the fighter is surrounded by 8 kobolds. That represents one in every square. If the fighter is getting out of that situation by MISSING attack rolls then something IS wrong with the game. Keep in mind they are doing this at first level, not at 15th. They are JUST starting their heroic journey and already they have the same ability superman does when he tosses 8 guys off of him when they dogpile. The kobolds simply aren't threatening in numbers. They aren't even as strong as 4e minions because you had to at least hit minions.

Entirely ignore the fact that I hate the concept of minions.

Yes, this is an important point. What works against kobolds will not necessarily work against other monsters. But then why should it?

BUT IT DOES. This is slightly tangenty as it deals more with the slayer's ability than kobolds, but it does work on higher level or more HP creatures too. They still take 3. Every round, no matter what, on a miss. Explain that to me? It isn't skill, grit, determination, luck or anything I understand to be related to HP. It is something completely unique that says that this guy is so kickass that he can hurt EVERYONE regardless of skill as long as they are within his reach, even if he misses. I don't get that.

I don't know where all this Reaper hatred comes from....the mechanic is just a lower powered version of the 4E Executioner (Assasin) ability.

If you are at 3 HP or less the Slayer is going to kill you...hit or miss.
First of all you are right. It is going to kill you hit or miss. Second of all, it is going to damage even those people or creatures that don't start with just 2 HP it is going to hurt EVERYONE. Third, the problem arises that the kobolds never have a chance. They only have 2 HP. Unless the DM decides to assign them 4 HP to start they are going to die, regardless if the fighter hits their AC.

<snip some part about bad star wars film>

Describe a miss as a Fighter going in a doing a Mike Tyson to the Ogre's Ear...the player is going to like the Theme.
Right, and that the fighter is going to bite the ear off the ogre ever round (on a miss) until it is dead..... how many ears does the ogre have?

Minions in 4e never take damage from missed attacks. I don't have a problem with capable PCs one-shotting a typical kobold as long as they hit. The problem is that slayers and magic missiles can kill them no matter what.

Right.
 

Viktyr Gehrig

First Post
the fighter needs a defensive fighting style option: +2 AC, disadvantage on all attacks or so...

would help a bit. And the cleave feat helps him too...

I would love to see stances and fighting styles as a Fighter class feature, in addition to multiple attacks and greater cleave at higher level.
 

VannATLC

First Post
DM: "Sorry, pointing at the kobold does nothing. You have to attack it."

Why does a fighter have to roll dice every round? It's okay for the wizard to announce a spell and have the DM roll a save. I don't see why the fighter should have to be rolling a die to be doing something, when fighting an incredibly weak individual opponent like this.
Exactly this.
 

Campbell

Relaxed Intensity
The play test fighter isn't actually all that much more effective against kobolds than a typical 3e fighter. The 3e fighter still kills kobolds with any hit, has about the same amount of accuracy and has cleave at first level. The play test fighter is more durable, and will always kill a kobold. The 3e fighter sometimes kills 0, sometimes kills 1, and sometimes kills 2. Over the course of 4 rounds its a difference of 4 kobolds killed (5e) to 3 kobolds killed(3e) assuming relatively average results. The vagaries of fate do have a higher impact on the 3e fighter - if a kobold crits he can almost kill a fighter with a single blow, if the 3e fighter has a lucky batch of rolls he can kill 8 kobolds in 4 rounds. The 5e fighter is stronger, but not by a metric load.
 

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