KotS: can I run it w/out the story?

[cr0m]

I'm running a sandbox game and thinking of trying 4e on for size. I'd like to take KotS and drop it into a location on my world map that's a ruined Keep.

Does the adventure make any sense without the backstory about Orcus (all I know about the module is from the WotC site)? Can it handle repeat visits by different parties? Could it make sense as a ruined fortress on a "lost world" type island?

 

[redcard]

I suppose the maps and the creatures could be useful.

Everything else doesn't really seem like it'd be helpful for repeat visits.

 

[cr0m]

Can you elaborate? Do you mean that players tend to complete the adventure in one session, or just that once the dungeon is cleared, there's nothing left?

If it's the latter, that's a-okay, I'll just restock it.

Also, is the story something like "ZOMG stop Bad Guy RIGHT NOW or we're dead" or "Bad Guy is on level 12. Go get him, tiger."

 

[fba827]

Well, the short version (mind you, my DM modified it, so some of this may not be 100% accurate but I'm guessing the gist is still the same).

[sblock]
bad Guy is attempting to do something (related to the cult of Orcus as you already know). He's doing it at the keep because there is a certain feature already present at the keep that allows him to do his ritual.

You clear the dungeon (which would take 2-3 sessions depending on length of your sessions and speed of player choices during combat -- warning, the pace of it being a dungeon crawl does start to ware away it's charm after a while).

There are a couple surprises you can find (which are story related and , by extension would make the big climax fight make more sense and possibly help the party -- though, this is easily rectified).

But you could easily change it from being the cult of orcus to just an evil guy that hired minions so that he could accomplish his evil act (i won't say what to avoid more spoilers).

Or even remove the backstory entirely, but in doing so you'd probably be best to remove the dead spirit that interacts with the PCs to explain the backstory.

I will reemphasize, however, that it does feel like a weighty and long dungeon crawl so having some sort of story will give it a purpose.

[/sblock]

 

[Stoat]

I think you could drop in fairly easily. You could keep the Orcus angle, or you could remove those sections without a lot of trouble.

It isn't a particularly large dungeon, and a dedicated party will probably clear it fairly quickly. Re-visits will only be worthwhile if new nasties keep moving in.

I don't get a particularly strong lost world vibe from the Keep, it's pretty standard fake-medieval-fantasy-Europe.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Can you elaborate? Do you mean that players tend to complete the adventure in one session, or just that once the dungeon is cleared, there's nothing left?

If it's the latter, that's a-okay, I'll just restock it.

Also, is the story something like "ZOMG stop Bad Guy RIGHT NOW or we're dead" or "Bad Guy is on level 12. Go get him, tiger."

There is a bad guy trying to perform a ritual, but I feel you should be able to change the part to not invalidate your "sand-box". Maybe the villain is still researching and might take a few more weeks or months before he can hope to finish the ritual...

 

[redcard]

Well, there are some secrets in the Keep. It generally is a "stop bad guy or everyone is in biiig trouble" type thing. Once the BBEG is taken care of , then the dungeon empties out. I suppose it can be restocked, but it generally feels like it's been custom made for just this one purpose. It's not really big or anything.

 

[Cyronax]

Well, the short version (mind you, my DM modified it, so some of this may not be 100% accurate but I'm guessing the gist is still the same).

[sblock]
bad Guy is attempting to do something (related to the cult of Orcus as you already know). He's doing it at the keep because there is a certain feature already present at the keep that allows him to do his ritual.

You clear the dungeon (which would take 2-3 sessions depending on length of your sessions and speed of player choices during combat -- warning, the pace of it being a dungeon crawl does start to ware away it's charm after a while).

There are a couple surprises you can find (which are story related and , by extension would make the big climax fight make more sense and possibly help the party -- though, this is easily rectified).

But you could easily change it from being the cult of orcus to just an evil guy that hired minions so that he could accomplish his evil act (i won't say what to avoid more spoilers).

Or even remove the backstory entirely, but in doing so you'd probably be best to remove the dead spirit that interacts with the PCs to explain the backstory.

I will reemphasize, however, that it does feel like a weighty and long dungeon crawl so having some sort of story will give it a purpose.

[/sblock]

As fba827's DM I will also elaborate. I cut about half the dungeon out (just because much of the material was way too repetitive) and I still didn't think it was up to par with 80% of the WotC adventures published since 2002. It seemed way too static, and honestly its not a great view into the 4e mechanic. Way too many battles could have been TPKs.

I actually had to issue a do-over for one battle (Irontooth and his kobolds .... see many other threads as to why).

In general, my advice is to buy the 4e Monster Manual and choose encounters that are only 1-2 levels higher then your characters at most until you get a good feeling about the system.

So far, I still haven't. The PCs are way more durable than in 3e, but its a totally new ball-game, and KtoS isn't a great starting model IMO.

C.I.D.

 

[thatdarnedbob]

cr0m: you have to run it without the story. This is 4E, after all.

 

[Zurai]

cr0m: you have to run it without the story. This is 4E, after all.

What story? There really isn't very much story to KotS. Maybe a page or two of text scattered through 20+ encounters.