Kung Fu Rust Monster?

[Krauss von Espy]

Here's a weird one.....

If a high level monk is polymorphed into a Rust Monster, can he use flurry of blows to make multiple attacks vs. an Iron Golem with his antennae?

And, what would be the REF Save DC for the Iron Golem to avoid being destroyed by the rust attack?

Thanks for your help, this is a tough one!

 

[UltimaGabe]

If a high level monk is polymorphed into a Rust Monster, can he use flurry of blows to make multiple attacks vs. an Iron Golem with his antennae?

No. You cannot use Natural Weapons (aside from your Unarmed Strikes or special Monk Weapons) in a Flurry of Blows. In this case, the Rust Monkster can still use an Unarmed Strike (I'm assuming they can, anyway), but those Unarmed Strikes would not be made with their Antennae. So, in other words, no.

 

[Hypersmurf]

If a high level monk is polymorphed into a Rust Monster, can he use flurry of blows to make multiple attacks vs. an Iron Golem with his antennae?

No - a monk may only attack with unarmed strikes or special monk weapons when using Flurry of Blows. A natural weapon is neither.

-Hyp.

 

[Krauss von Espy]

How about other effects which would grant extra attacks, like a Haste spell?

Or making a full attack with a multiple BAB progression? Would that still work with the Rust Monster's natural antennae attack?

 

[Nifft]

How about other effects which would grant extra attacks, like a Haste spell?

Yes.

Or making a full attack with a multiple BAB progression? Would that still work with the Rust Monster's natural antennae attack?

No. Natural attack routines (e.g. "claw/claw/bite") are fixed in number and not "iterative".

-- N

 

[Storyteller01]

Waht happens when critters with natural attacks (such as a minotaur) gain Class levels (say fighter, in the minotaurs case)?

Not looking for a fight; just want to know how it's handled...

 

[Krelios]

The Sage advice and I (for once) agree on natural attacks and BAB. (...I really didn't mean to make that rhyme in iambic pentameter...) A monster with a sufficiently high BAB (at least +6) can use one of its natural weapons with the iterative bonus instead of using the rest of their attacks. So a monster with a +6/+1 BAB and a Claw/Claw/Bite routine could attack in either of the following ways:

+4 Claw/+4 Claw/+1 Bite

OR

+6 Claw/+1 Claw

In general, the natural attacks will be better, except in certain circumstances where the BAB is exceptionally high, or where you have a special attack (like antennae) that you'd prefer to use more than once.

 

[apesamongus]

Here's a weird one.....

If a high level monk is polymorphed into a Rust Monster, can he use flurry of blows to make multiple attacks vs. an Iron Golem with his antennae?

Well, technically, he can make an unarmed strike with any part of his body, but only his natural attack will cause the rusting effect, and a natural attack can't be used as part of a flurry.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Waht happens when critters with natural attacks (such as a minotaur) gain Class levels (say fighter, in the minotaurs case)?

Natural attacks fall into two categories: primary and secondary.

Primary natural attacks are made at full BAB and use the creature's full Strength bonus, while secondary natural attacks are made at full BAB with a -5 penalty and use half the creature's Strength bonus. Neither gets iterative attacks based on high BAB (so a creature with BAB +6 and two claws doesn't get to make attacks at +6 / +6 / +1 / +1, he only gets +6 / +6).

As a normal (standard action) attack, a creature may attack with any weapon it has available - including its natural weapons.

When making a full attack (full-round action) a creature can mix manufactured weapons (which includes unarmed strikes) with natural weapons; when doing so treats his manufactured weapons as primary, and all natural weapons as secondary. He could also just use his manufactured weapons or just use his natural weapons, if he so desired. He can always use all of his natural weapons when he mixes them, unless something he's carrying prevents it (like, for instance, a creature with a claw attack has a shield or sword in that hand).

So, take a minotaur, with BAB +6. He's got a Gore attack as a primary natural weapon, and has a greataxe So, if he makes a standard action single attack, he can gore, or he can strike with his greataxe at his full BAB (+6) and 1.5x his Strength bonus (+6). (Note that the SRD statblock is wrong, here - since the mino only has a single natural attack, it should get 1.5x his Strength bonus on it.)

When he makes a Full Attack, he can elect to just Gore (at BAB+6, Str+6), just use his Greataxe (at BAB+6 / +1, Str+6), or mix them: Greataxe (BAB +6 / +1, Str +6) and Gore (BAB +6-5, Str+2).