L&L 5/21 - Hit Points, Our Old Friend

[Sunseeker]

I was really hoping they were going to dramatically scale the rate of HP gain back in this edition, as their early comments indicated. If they did, we wouldn't really need to have to jump through so many hoops to explain away the blatant unrealistic nature of HPs. Sure, they're going to be an "abstraction" either way, but they're a heck of alot more believable if characters don't have 20 times the number of HP at 20th level that they had at level 1.

Perhaps we should spend more time trying to explain away the blatantly unrealistic nature of extra-dimensional tentacle monsters. Or giant magic-casting, fire-breathing lizards.

 

[Sunseeker]

I suspect (from a hodgepodge of things from various places) that we will see that you get max hp whenever you level up. The randomized recovery of HD during play will act to make it interesting. This would also fit with the idea that games wishing to start with competent/heroic PCs a la 4e would start at level 3 or so, rather than level 1.

I'm not sure how Con or Con bonus fit into the scheme (if at all.)

Max HP+con per level, or some other fixed form of HP generation, with mundane healing using level-based HD rolls would be fine with me. Assigning HD by level also does leave room for folks to roll them, so presenting rolled, half, half+1, or maxed would all be equally valid options.

 

[Dausuul]

Sorry to come in at the last second, but does this mean that if you're a 5th level Fighter with 5 d10 HD, after a night's rest you roll 5d10 HP healing?

As far as I can tell, it means that you have a stash of five d10s for nonmagical healing (via first aid, healing herbs, and such). At any time, you can spend 10 minutes bandaging yourself, roll any or all of those d10s, and add the results to your hit point total.

When your stash runs out, you can gain no more benefit from nonmagical healing that day. You can recover some of those d10s with a night's rest. We do not currently know how many "some" is. It might be all five, it might be three, it might be only one. Or it might be one of those dials that the DM can adjust based on taste.

 

[ExploderWizard]

I was really hoping they were going to dramatically scale the rate of HP gain back in this edition, as their early comments indicated. If they did, we wouldn't really need to have to jump through so many hoops to explain away the blatant unrealistic nature of HPs. Sure, they're going to be an "abstraction" either way, but they're a heck of alot more believable if characters don't have 20 times the number of HP at 20th level that they had at level 1.

We don't know that they will. Hit dice used to cap at name level for most classes with only a couple of HP (and no CON bonus) gained per level after that. Perhaps hit dice will stop or slow way down after a certain level to keep hit points in the sane realm?

 

[YRUSirius]

We don't know that they will. Hit dice used to cap at name level for most classes with only a couple of HP (and no CON bonus) gained per level after that. Perhaps hit dice will stop or slow way down after a certain level to keep hit points in the sane realm?

That's why I love rolled max hp. To keep the hit points in the sane realm. A level 20 fighter has in average 100 hp from his class.

EDIT: That's enough for a level 20 fighter to fight 10 orcs on his own, non?

-YRUSirius

 

[FireLance]

Incidentally, even if you don't like non-magical healing, there are a number of ways that you can choose to make use of the 5e concept of Hit Dice which would not require you to flavor them as healing. I should add that most of these ideas were actually raised by various people over the course of several discussions on the nature of healing surges, hit points and non-magical healing in 4e, so I can't claim credit for them. The fact that Hit Dice are more granular than 4e healing surges actually makes these ideas more viable, IMO.

1. Temporary Hit Points: At the start of each combat, you may choose to spend one or more Hit Dice (capped at the number of Hit Dice you can spend in a short rest, if any) as a free action to gain temporary hit points equal to the hit points you would normally regain by spending the Hit Dice.

2. Damage Avoidance: When you take damage in combat, you may expend one Hit Dice to reduce the amount of damage you take by an amount equal to the number of hit points you would normally regain by spending the Hit Dice (you always take a minimum of 1 hit point of damage). (If the number of Hit Dice you may spend in a short rest is capped, the number of times per combat that you may do this has the same cap.)

3. It's All Hit Points: Just ignore the fiddly bits, and convert whatever Hit Dice you have directly to hit points. Your fighter has 10 hp and 1 Hit Dice? Roll that 1d10 and add it to your hit points. Your character now has 11 to 20 hit points. Next level, you gain 10 hp and another Hit Dice? You now have 22 to 40 hit points. You regain 2 Hit Dice after a night's rest? You just regain 2d10 hp per night. You now have random hit points and a single hit point total to track, just like in the old days.

 

[Man in the Funny Hat]

This use of "hit dice" is so close to what I came up with for my own games it's a little disturbing. One of the few things I thought had merit from 4E was the approach to healing. They just didn't quite implement it in a way I cared for and what they CALLED it... "Surges." Where the heck did they EVER come up with that word - and then decide that it was better than any other word they might have come up with? Really, just calling them "surges" blinded me for a long time to the value of the concept itself.

I've been working on adapting newer ideas to 1E rules for my own purposes and wanted to strongly disassociate healing from clerics - and minor (indeed, trivial) differences aside this was what I came up with. I'm still dubious about the new versions overall success but I see this one as a check in the "win" column.

 

[Libramarian]

I'm pretty much going to flavor it as fighting spirit and determination. If you're above half hp but have used up all your Hit Dice (assuming that is possible - there may be a rule that prevents you from using the last half of your Hit Dice unless you are at less than half hit points), your character is starting to feel nervous. He's had a lot of close calls in the last day or so, and he's starting to get worried that his luck will run out. When he's finally dropped to less than half his hit points, it takes all the willpower he has left just to keep going. He has none to spare for a last-ditch burst of effort.

You don't spend them in battle though, only during a rest, so it's not going to feel like a "burst of effort".

It's like catching your breath, except that you get to choose how much of your breath you catch and at some point you run out of the capacity to catch your breath.

Idk I'm not going to worry too much about it; I'll see if it feels odd or gamey in play. But it's weird how they're paying such close attention to what hitpoints mean fictionally but not what hit dice and the act of spending hit dice means fictionally.

 

[underfoot007ct]

Reactions to this article seem to be a tell-tale sign between those who care about compromise and those that want their thing and their thing only, come hell or high water.

I'm not sure that it's the best way to handle it, but will be rather amusing, from a historical perspective, if the "hit die" cap out at "name level."

I think this hits the nail on the head, regarding compromise. Too many people state only what "they" want & "deal breakers", rather than if the new ideas are reasonable & workable. Some amount of compromise is required. Overall I am pleased with the article. Also that most gamers are staying open minded.

 

[Someone]

I'm still not buying what HP represents. And yes, I know, its pretty much always been this way in D&D.

Their example... A Fighter with 10 hit points gets bit by a spider for 3 damage. Barely a hit, but just enough so he has to make a fort save vs the poison. So what happens when that same spider hits that same fighter 10 levels later? When the fighter has 60 hit points. If 3 hit points off of 10 is a "near miss" then what is 3 hit points off of 60? The fighter has to make a saving throw.

How about an arrow attack? An arrow hits the Fighter for 3 damage. Realistically, you get hit with an arrow, you're as good as dead. But this is D&D, and not all is as it seems when hit points come into play. According to how D&D views hit points, this might not be a hit at all. Maybe you dodge out of the way, or luck came into play. You exert some stamina for getting out of the way in time, and this is represented by taking off 3 hit points from your total. But what if the arrow is poisoned? Now you have to make a save. So if the arrow missed you, it didn't really miss you.

What about falling 100 feet? Using current D&D math, thats 10d6 damage or 30 damage on average. The 10 hit point fighter goes splat (reasonable) but the 60 hit point fighter somehow 'bouces' off the ground with maybe a few bruises?

I know Hit Points is the best we have, but they really do not make sense in a lot of cases. Its just one of those things I try not to think about too much.

Also, we're back at healing spells that if used on a 1st level fighter turn them from bloody mess of broken bones into examples of perfect health, but on 10th level fighters are barely able to heal a flea's bite.