[L&L] Balancing the Wizards in D&D

[GMforPowergamers]

All the time.

Magic missle (5d4+5 auto damage)
Mage Armor (+4 AC all day)
Sheild
comprehend lang

 

[Lord Mhoram]

One thing I am looking at - Wands hold spells. They don't seem to be implements.
4th had Wizards roll to hit with spells. Earlier editions didn't do that for the most part (they had saves).

If magic is dangerous, but it causes a lost action, rather than loss of the spell, it really isn't all that different from a fighter whiffing his sword strike. Especially if it is for the bigger spells, and not at-wills.


Overall I like what I am seeing - and I am a huge Spellcaster fan - Wizards/Sorcerers are one of my two favorite classes (other being Monk). I don't mind the occasional loss of an action to damage, I played in 1st AD&D, so no issues for me. The limited spell slots for balance, I'm cool with. I love the idea of a wand (instead of a scroll) being a single spell auto prepared that you use your own spell slots to power.
I love wizards, and I love playing them in 3.x (and Pathfinder) but that doesn't mean I am not aware of the abuses that can be done.

I hope some form of implements stay around (maybe adding to DC of save or however they are going to do that) - and I love Rituals. I really hope that implements and rituals see some form in D&DNext - they are two of my favorite things about 4E (the other being Dragonborn )

 

[Minigiant]

Via magic items. Too many people forget that THAT is the D&D way. D&D doesn't expect naked fighters with a steel sword to be adventuring at 15th level. It expects fighters with rings of protection, boots of flying, a helm of brilliance, gem of seeing and sword of might smiting to be adventuring at 15th level.

D&D was never intended to be a low-magic item system, and that is probably why it sucks at that once you get above relatively low level!

Pretty much.

I've seen most DMs pick one of two options.

1) Christmas trees and Scrolls

Casters quest for Scrolls.
Non-casters quest for magic items.
Caster's can't use magic swords for some reason.

Scrolls, wands, and staves = Magic weapons, armors, rings, and equipment

OR

2)
Higher level noncaster don't glow
High level casters are starved for resources (spell slots, spell power, spell known, time, and HP)

 

[I'm A Banana]

I've seen most DMs pick one of two options.

Those are the two most commonly used, but there is a third:

Fighters gain magic items they select as part of their "class abilities" as they level up.

5e doesn't seem to be going in this direction, but I think it's valid (and kind of interesting!).

 

[JRRNeiklot]

are you kidding?


so lets say you are waking up from camp outside in the woods less then an hour from the dungeon. You are first level, and as such have 1 spell per day Plus 1 for a high Int. You have preped 2 1st level spells.

5 kobolds ambush the party, the fight lasts 4 full combat rounds, and 1 suprise round (kobolds get the suprise) providing no PCs die from those 5 kobolds, you do what for those 4-5 rounds. Out of game that is like half hour to forty minites.

Wow. In my game that would be about 5, maybe 10 minutes. But why is the party being ambushed? Did they fail to set a watch or take precautions? If so, they deserve what they get.

Lets say you do no spells, int hat fight.

you get to the dungeon and the first room are 2 goblin archers behind cover with a wolf. great sentrys. How ever this is another 3-5 round fight, and another half hour... then you go into the dungons get started.

Well, here is where the rogue does his job, or the druid. Or a volley of flaming oil. Or perhaps this is a good place for a sleep spell.

I bet more then half the wizards in D&D over the last 40 or so years would have been sitting out 7-10 combat rounds.

Not any that I'm familiar with. What happened to throwing oil?

 

[Lwaxy]

The ability to stick any and every spell (up to 4th level) into a wand was an aberration of 3E. No other edition has had it, and I see no need to bring it back in D&DN. 3E wands embodied everything I hated about 3E's handling of magic items--they were both utterly bland and very powerful.

I've kicked the 4th level limit and it is still not an issue.

All you really need is making those items rarer and more exotic. In my view, there are too many magic items/scrolls/potions/enhanced weapons found in treasures, and usually very illogically placed, too.

My Company of Chaos group played through the first PF adventures on Golarion and then we decided to lower the hauls of the adventures. By a lot. There was a whole long list of magic stuff even in the beginner adventure. And most of the D&D adventures have been worse than PF is.

But I hope 5e will reign this part of the problem in.

 

[Minigiant]

Those are the two most commonly used, but there is a third:

Fighters gain magic items they select as part of their "class abilities" as they level up.

5e doesn't seem to be going in this direction, but I think it's valid (and kind of interesting!).

Like soulknives and scions?

Or

Your fighter is level 5. Here's a flametongue.

 

[howandwhy99]

What do you think about "Magic is Difficult"? Moreso than unpredictably dangerous?
(This being a game and all)

 

[JRRNeiklot]

I guess they are all fighter Mages? or something? I know I can only remember 1 or 2 times that a straight wizard entered combat and made a diffrence. Infact I can think of only 1 time, and it was totaly badass BECUSE it was so rare.

If wizards got +1 to hit (or-1thac0) for the first 3 or 4 levels and d6's for those hp and leather armor (or like 4e int mod over dex) then I would agree, this class is meant to go into a fight with a weapon, and then at latter levels use spells

A first level wizard in AD&D has the exact same chance to hit as a first level fighter. So yeah, he can make a difference. Any person entering a dungeon where monsters lurk better damn well be prepared to swing a weapon.

 

[Lwaxy]

Magic missle (5d4+5 auto damage)
Mage Armor (+4 AC all day)
Sheild
comprehend lang

Yeah, plus hold portal, protections, the already mentioned grease, unseen servant, obscuring mists, identify, invisibility...

The few wizards I play/ed rather had a collection of low level spells than much of anything 4th and up.