Leaders

[Chimera]

Hint for those who are confused (not to be confused with anyone who has posted here):

Leaders are the ones willing to make decisions, even if they are wrong.

The people who offer options while refusing to make decisions are not leaders, they are obstacles.


I tend to be a "leader" in most of my groups, even if we don't have any "official" leaders. Mostly because I'm able to come up with plans and willing to make decisions.

My biggest peeve about gaming is sitting around arguing for an hour about something when our characters only have 30 seconds to make a decision.

 

[sniffles]

Our group tends to be made up of people who don't like decision-making in real life, and no one wants to run the party leader. I find that it can actually be very stressful to be put in the party leadership position, and since I want my gaming experience to be fun not stressful (I get enough of that in the rest of my life) I avoid leadership roles like the plague.

I have to admit, though, that some of what Chimera says is true. It's a pain when we can't make a decision.

 

[moritheil]

IME, someone always ends up "leader".

Hopefully the least insane, although occasionally the most insane character.

 

[Aeric]

A party leader has to be someone who in real life has the kind of personality that the other players will listen to and follow. I've played many a character who had no business leading a party, but ended up doing so anyways because mine was the strongest personality in the group. Conversely, I've played in and ran games where a specific person was designated as the party leader, but his player lacked the decisiveness and force of personality to make the others follow him.

 

[Davelozzi]

In my regular D&D group, we never have a leader, though I've often wished we would as we waste lots of time arguing indecisively.

In other games I've played, there's often been a leader and it's worked out fine.

I think it's partially something about D&D specifically, not just RPGs in general. In a sci-fi or space game, it's a natural part of the genre to have a heirarchy, whether or not it's a PC leader or an NPC commander who assigns missions but isn't part of the party. In my experience, in D&D people really want a freebootin' group of wandering heroes/mercenaries that answers to no one.

 

[Cinderfall]

Leading in a circle

My group occasionally elects a group leader, though most of the time it doesn't work out very well. Either the leader is too wishy washy or the group ignores the decisions being made. Most of our group (myself included) like to argue and debate. Pointlessly. The group is composed of friends and I love them to pieces, but sometimes I could just strangle them (and myself).

I think we (desperately) need a group leader for every campaign just so we don't waste precious game time (30+ mins) arguing over the most simple things (like watch order, travel order, what inn to stay at). The worst is when we finally have a plan and right before we enact it, someone does the "WAIT! What about this possibility or that possibility!" Even though most of the time the -possibilities- are very remote and beyond our perception and/or control.

Our current leader always wants to open each decision up to the floor for debate - even during situations like combat, where you need concise decisions made NOW. I think he's worried about angering other people or making a mistake. Frankly, I don't worry about that as it's a game and I would rather advance the story and DO SOMETHING than go in circles about whether or not to bring a wagon. I've been trying specifically this campaign to support/push the leader's decisions. Twice I've had to blatantly tell the leader to "MAKE A DECISION." Please, save us from ourselves!

Now that I've made a good point of bashing my group I do feel the need to point out that they are a great bunch of guys and I do like gaming with them. In fact some of the horror stories I've read on here make me appreciate what I've got all the more.

And to the question on hand, "Do parties need a leader?" It's all about the individual group. Some function without. Ours isn't one of them.

Oh, and Chimera, nice post, I agree 100%.

 

[Agback]

Having a party leader helps to keep things moving sometimes. We have a couple of players that usually take on leadership roles; however, when they try to make low CHA "behind the scenes" characters, the party really starts to slow down and drag out every single decision.

I have that trouble. Worse, when I am trying to play a low-key character some GMs still have NPCs treat me as though I were an obvious shaker and mover.

Just now I have joined a new group, or people who don't know me at all, and who don't know that I am supposed to be this dominating leader type. The DM insists that every party in an RPG must have a leader, default marching order etc. etc. I have let someone else take the leadership and have eased myself (in the part of my charcter, a cleric of Helm) into the role of his chief-of-staff/executive officer. We'll see how it goes.

 

[Agback]

Leaders are the ones willing to make decisions, even if they are wrong.

The people who offer options while refusing to make decisions are not leaders, they are obstacles.

That's right. A leader says "I'm going this way, everyone follow me!".

A character who coddles around constructing a consensus and says "I'll lead you in whatever direction you want to go" is not a leader but a vainglorious follower.

 

[Bront]

I'm running a party right now, and the players who would normaly be the best leaders are playing characters who aren't, and it's shown. Unfortunately, unlike previous games I've been in, there is no character who's a good defacto leader, though that may change with the last player finaly able to show up.

I often end up the Party leader in one group, because, among other things, the other players seem to be unwilling to put their character's on the line by actualy going first. I've ultimately determined that I will always have to play a leader in that group, because otherwise we'll never get anywhere or take any risks.

Example - Heavily armored fighter to the shifty Rogue "I don't want to go first, it could be dangerous. You go first."

 

[Quasqueton]

In my previous campaign, when the Players were making up a new group of characters after a near TPK, they all decided as a group to have the human bard PC be the leader of the group. He was the only one with a positive Charisma modifier. Unfortunately, even though the Player initially agreed to act as leader, she had not the personality for it and always shirked the role. The PC ended up dieing, and the group never again had anyone to be leader.

The next campaign, the group of PCs came together as individuals (not a team from the start). The dwarf monk tried to act as leader. When an NPC human cleric joined the group, the cleric supported the monk in whatever decisions and actions he made. Ironically, when the monk was virtually incapacitated on one adventure, the other PCs "made" the NPC cleric party leader. After the cleric died (on that adventure), and the monk was "recovered", the monk came out less wanting to be leader but the group was more willing to follow him. Such irony.

Now, the monk has left the group, replaced with a PC cleric with the Leadership feat. The Player is trying to be a leader, but the group just doesn't follow very well. They've actually nominated the PC's bard cohort as party leader. The bard defers to the PC cleric, but the other PCs actually listen and follow the cohort. Strange, indeed.

* * *

Then, in a game where I was a Player, I tried to play my human paladin as a leader type (knowing the group really needed a leader). I did moderately well asking everyone's opinion/advice and then making a fast decision and moving on it. But then we had an "incident" that wasn't a proud moment for me.

We had encountered two groups of enemies that ended in a three-way battle. There had been some conversation between some PCs in the party and the orc group of enemies. My character was the only one to not speak Orc. The conversation was passed around in notes around the table for the ones who spoke the language. (A common thing for how we handle such things.)

After the major battle, I tried to get everyone to move out of the danger area, with a prisoner. No one wanted to move with me. I was getting, "Why?", "I don't think we should.", etc. I got forceful and finally got everyone to move. When we got out of the area, I started to let the captive go free (as I thought appropriate under the circumstances). The other PCs didn't want to let him go, but no one gave a reason why. We broke the game session there.

During the next week, we discussed the game via e-mail. That's when I learned what the orcs had said. I learned why the group didn't want to let the captive go. So there had been all this good information that *nobody* thought to inform the leader of. The whole group knew what was going on except for the one trying to act as leader -- and no one told him anything. All the effort they put into fighting against my attempt to lead, they never bothered to explain the information they had but I didn't. I was completely flabbergasted. I gave up trying to act as leader from then on.

* * *

And then, another time, much longer ago, I had joined a new group. In the first game session, I learned how badly the group needed a leader -- anybody to lead. They spent 2 hours debating the next course of action! After the game session, through e-mail and in person, the DM and I discussed the situation. He told me he knew the group needed a leader, and directly asked me to take it on. He asked me to change characters from my rogue to a paladin or similar character to be leader. I agreed and brought in a paladin with the Leadership feat (and a cohort and some followers). The DM introduced my character as a leader-type, and I tried to fill the role.

But leading this group was like trying to ride a bucking bronco. Plus, after the initial game session, the DM didn't support me in any way. In fact, after a few game sessions, a new PC came in (a new character for a returning Player) -- this character was a blackguard! What!? Yes, that's right: the DM, after directly asking me to bring in a paladin and be group leader, allowed a Player to bring in a blackguard to the group.

So the two times that I've tried to be a leader failed miserably. I'll never do it again.

Quasqueton