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Lets design a Warlord for 5th edition

When you can spend a whole post giving criticisms and complaints about my warlord attempt and then finally getting around to asking how it actually works in the last post... I don't think such really deserves a response
When you can spend a whole post giving criticisms and complaints about my warlord attempt and then finally getting around to asking how it actually works in the last post... I don't think such really deserves a response
I questioned in my first post, but your answer didn’t, well, answer my question.
(Which, incidentally, is more than you did when you “reviewed” my warlord. No comments on powers, no suggestions on what could be imbalanced or rephrased. Nothing to help me rework or improve the design.)

Look, if it’s not clear how a set of mechanics works, then it might need to be rephrased or tweaked. I’m *trying* to give honest feedback on the design. If you can’t be bothered to properly response to the feedback, let alone even considering changing the design based on feedback, them I am wasting my time looking at your designs and asking for your feedback on my work.
 

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I like that stratagem idea. It's open and flexible.
The wording is awkward in places (it’s a complex power with a lot of clarifications needed) but I’m pretty happy with that. I’m considering moving it to level 6 to make it available earlier, especially as it became a centerpiece ability with the later features. It’s meant to encourage tactical thinking and rewards strategy, which is the hook of the warlord. And while it can grant that extra attack, but isn't as limited as “make and extra attack”.

Poking away at the extra action subclass at the moment. At-will attack granting still might be too much. But once every short rest is too rarely.
I’m really leaning on “when you roll initiative” as a recharge mechanic for warlord. Possibly too much...
 

mellored

Legend
And here's my warlord revision #364


Tactician:
Intelligence is your primary stat, as it allows you to analyze battles and formulate plans. Charisma is also important as it allows you to better trick enemies and encourage allies. Some tacticians also like to use weapons, so some strength or dexterity would be useful.

Hit Dice: 1d8
Weapons: All simple and martial weapons.
Armor: Light and medium armor. Shields.
Saves: Int, Wis, Cha

Level 1: Tactical Awareness: You survey the battlefield looking for an opening, keeping several plans in mind. You can have a maximum number of tactical points equal to Intelligence modifier + your tactician level (minimum 1). When you roll initiative, your pool is set to half this amount (rounded down). You can spend these points on tactical features. Unless otherwise stated, tactical features require you to clearly see the target, the target must clearly hear you, and no action is required.

Assess the Situation: As an action during battle, you gain a number of tactician points equal to your Intelligence modifier.

Tactics: Choose 2 tactics choices below, and gain additional ones according to the level chart. You can change out which tactics you have prepared after a short rest. The save DC for any Tactician ability is 8 + your charisma modifier.
In addition, you and your allies can come up with your own plan. Your DM determines the point cost.

Level 2: Bolt of Insight: As a bonus action you gain a number of tactician points equal to your proficiency modifier, up to your maximum. Once you use this feature, you cannot use it again until you take a short rest.

Quick Assessment: You can use your reaction to instantly know a creature's exact AC, saving throw modifier for a particular ability score, or to-hit roll or save DC for a particular attack or spell.


Level 3: Command Style: Select a command style. Your choice gives you additional features at levels ???
  • Bravado: Your lead from the front style brings you close to the action, allowing you to analyze foes up close and personal. Whenever you take the attack action or are attacked, you gain 1 tactical point.
  • Guerilla: Hit and run is the name of your game. Whenever you use Assess the Situation, you can hide as a bonus action. In addition, you gain 1 additional tactical points at the start of each battle.
  • Crier: You like stand back to get a larger overview of the battlefield, shouting your commands in a booming voice. Rarely drawing your weapon you focus on adapting to the situation. When you use Assess the Situation and do not move on your turn, you gain additional tactical points equal to half your warlord level. In addition, you can project your voice twice as far as normal.
  • Rascal: Your style revolves around tricking the enemy. You gain the minor illusion cantrip. When you cast an illusion spell, you gain 1 tactical point. Intelligence is your casting modifier.
  • Bastion: A favored of dwarves, your style is to draw a hard line in the sand, and defend it from all invaders. When you use Assess the Situation, select a 10x10 cube on the ground as your point. When you use a Tactic on a creature in that zone, you regain 1 tactical point immediately afterward.


Level 5: Improved Tactical Awareness: At the start of each of your turns during battle, you gain 1 tactical point. This increases to 2 points at level 11, and 3 points at level 17.



Tactics:
  • Fight On!: (1 point) When an ally takes damage, you can spend a tactical point to let them spend a hit die and add your Charisma modifier, reducing the damage by the result. If the damage is reduced to 0, they gain the remainder as temporary hit points.
  • Cunning Strike: (1+ point) When you take the attack action, instead of rolling an attack roll, the target makes an Intelligence saving throw. If they fail, you hit and deal an extra 1d8 damage for each point spent.
  • Direct the Strike: (3 points): When an ally takes an attack action, they can make 1 additional attack against the same target.
  • Skirmish: (1-5 points) When a creature is hit by an opportunity attack, they gain a bonus to AC against the attack equal to your twice the number of points you spent, potentially changing the results.
  • First Strike: (1+ points) When a creature rolls initiative, you can Opportunity bonus equal to the number of points spent.
  • Sacrificial Opportunity: (1+ points) When a creature would make a melee attack against you, you can be automatically be hit in order to have it provoke an opportunity attack from one creature adjacent to it, excluding yourself. Reduce the damage you take by a 1d6 for each point spent.
  • Drive the Point: (1+ points) When a creature makes with an attack, you can spend a tactical point to increase the roll of the d20 by 1 for each point spent, up to a maximum of 20. Potentially turn a miss into a hit or a hit into a crit.


Multi-classing: 13 Int, 13 Cha. You gain proficiency in either Intelligence of Charisma saving throws.
 
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FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
I questioned in my first post, but your answer didn’t, well, answer my question.
(Which, incidentally, is more than you did when you “reviewed” my warlord. No comments on powers, no suggestions on what could be imbalanced or rephrased. Nothing to help me rework or improve the design.)

Look, if it’s not clear how a set of mechanics works, then it might need to be rephrased or tweaked. I’m *trying* to give honest feedback on the design. If you can’t be bothered to properly response to the feedback, let alone even considering changing the design based on feedback, them I am wasting my time looking at your designs and asking for your feedback on my work.

Sure and yet, Criticizing a whole design and the choices made for it before you even take the time to understand the abilities in question isn't a constructive exercise.
 

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
[MENTION=37579]Jester David[/MENTION]

I finally dug up my earlier posts regarding my Warlord Design. Hopefully this explains it better than my hastily put together attempt.

Warlord's Aid - Aid takes many forms. Sometimes it comes from an inspiring shout and an ally is urged to fight on after being hit. Sometimes it's sharing tactical brilliance that helps an ally knock an enemy prone. Sometimes it's your own bravery and fighting that inspires allies instead of your words. Other times it comes from an insightful understanding of your foes that enables you to alert your allies out of dangers way just in time. Whatever the sources for your ability to aid other's it's frequency and power is renowned amongst your friends.

Abilities granted by Warlord's Aid can be used once per round in combat. Aid abilities generally require a trigger and grant an effect. These abilities do not require any kind of action on your part. Warlord's Aid abilities improve at 5th and 11th level granting improved effectiveness to your already chosen maneuvers as well as opening up a few new ones.

I wanted to expand on this Warlord's Aid style of ability a little and the theory around how and why it will work.

Almost all the Warlord classes power will come by it's aids. Aid's will start with minor effects. At level 5 they will upgrade and start providing extra damage, extra attacks, and stronger buffs and debuffs. At level 11 they will upgrade again and provide even stronger effects.

This means the Warlord base class will not see extra attack. However, some level 5+ Aid's will feature him being able to make a second attack when he uses that particular Aid. Some may even feature an ally getting an extra attack. By removing extra attack and most other ways of scaling Warlord Damage we allow Warlord's Aid to empower some pretty strong effects while still being able to remain at will.

So my ideal progression in the early levels:
1. Warlords Ability (once per round ability with a wide variety of effects. I prefer using triggers like attacking, hitting or an ally being hit etc to help allow the warlord to grant allies abilities on their turn, these would cost no kind of action or reaction)
2. Subclass Ability
3. Enhanced Warlord's Ability (a few powered up extra uses of the ability per short rest, healing will be a power up on some of the abilities)
4. ASI
5. Improved Warlord's Ability (every Warlord's ability now is enhanced to a level 5 version, granting substantially greater effects, potentially including extra attacks etc)

Honestly once the first 5 levels are mapped out the rest of the class gets much easier to design.
 

Level 1: Tactical Awareness: You survey the battlefield looking for an opening, keeping several plans in mind. You can have a maximum number of tactical points equal to Intelligence modifier + your tactician level (minimum 1). When you roll initiative, your pool is set to half this amount (rounded down). You can spend these points on tactical features. Unless otherwise stated, tactical features require you to clearly see the target, the target must clearly hear you, and no action is required.
It might be easier to phrase this differently, rather than defining the maximum and then halving that. Perhaps having a base amount of Tactical Points and then saying the maximum is twice that number.

Still, that seems low. With a 14 Int, at level 1 you'd have 1 point at the start of combat. Not much to do stuff with. At level 2-3 you'd have 2, level 4-5 you'd have 3, 6-7 you'd have 4. At level 8 you might boost Int to 16... and still end up with 5. Might as well just go 1/2 level +1.
Or even 1/2 proficiency at low levels, a feature that makes it proficiency at mid-levels, and finally twice proficiency at higher levels...

Assess the Situation: As an action during battle, you gain a number of tactician points equal to your Intelligence modifier.
This has a high action cost. Most combats only last 2-3 rounds. Burning your entire turn to do this means you might get a bunch of cool stuff the next round... that you might not be able to use.
(This would be a playtesting question to see how that worked in play.)
Especially after level 5 when you might be gaining 2 TP every turn between the L5 feature and your subclass.

Tactics: Choose 2 tactics choices below, and gain additional ones according to the level chart. You can change out which tactics you have prepared after a short rest. The save DC for any Tactician ability is 8 + your charisma modifier.
In addition, you and your allies can come up with your own plan. Your DM determines the point cost.
The "choose two" seems awkward given you automatically know all the tactics. Maybe "you can prepare two tactics at the end of each short or long rest". Or even preparing a number equal to your proficiency bonus.
Unsure about Charisma to saves. It makes the class a little MAD.

Level 2: Bolt of Insight: As a bonus action you gain a number of tactician points equal to your proficiency modifier, up to your maximum. Once you use this feature, you cannot use it again until you take a short rest.
This feels a little redundant with Assess the Situation. Does there need to be two powers that do roughly the same thing? And if you can do this pretty much every other fight, why would you Assess the Situation?
It's potentially confusing to have two different abilities restoring the same pool but granting different amounts. Instead, it could be "You can used Assess the Situation as a bonus action. Once you do so, you must complete a short rest to use this feature again."

Quick Assessment: You can use your reaction to instantly know a creature's exact AC, saving throw modifier for a particular ability score, or to-hit roll or save DC for a particular attack or spell.
Reactions tend to have a trigger worked into the power. "When attacked you use your reaction to..." or "when the clock strikes three, as a reaction you..."

This is also very dissociated. Combat starts, everyone rolls initiative. The warlord immediately looks at the unknown creature and guesses its AC or Dexterity save before anyone has acted. What are they assessing?

[*]Fight On!: (1 point) When an ally takes damage, you can spend a tactical point to let them spend a hit die and add your Charisma modifier, reducing the damage by the result. If the damage is reduced to 0, they gain the remainder as temporary hit points.
Is there an associated reaction? Or can you just do this at-will? (A question for most of these powers.)

[*]Cunning Strike: (1+ point) When you take the attack action, instead of rolling an attack roll, the target makes an Intelligence saving throw. If they fail, you hit and deal an extra 1d8 damage for each point spent.
This is weird but I kinda dig it. Tricking someone into taking a weapon attack. An extra d8 might be a bit high though. A Bravado warlord could do this every round dealing 2d8 each round. Pretty high for what amounts to a level 3 cantrip. Would Str and Dex still be applied to the damage?

[*]Skirmish: (1-5 points) When a creature is hit by an opportunity attack, they gain a bonus to AC against the attack equal to your twice the number of points you spent, potentially changing the results.
A +10 bonus to AC is pretty high.

[*]Direct the Strike: (3 points): When an ally takes an attack action, they can make 1 additional attack against the same target.
[*]Drive the Point: (1+ points) When a creature makes with an attack, you can spend a tactical point to increase the roll of the d20 by 1 for each point spent, up to a maximum of 20. Potentially turn a miss into a hit or a hit into a crit.
These do mirror the lazylord nicely, with the character just standing back and using Assess on their turn to keep themselves maxed with TP, and then dolling these bonuses out as needed. Especially paired with the Crier.
"Okay, I'm level 4 and have an Int of 18. I assess and gain 6 TP. Bobby misses with his greatclub attack. Take 2 TP and hit. And attack again while at it. And Diana does a flurry. I can give her 1 to her roll as well."

I can imagine it getting a little fiddly. "I give him 2 points. Does a 16 hit? How about a 17? An 18 then? Just tell me the AC then and I'll subtract the right amount of TP..." It's a little too clean. Adding a "one per turn" limit keeps that less busy, and it might be more dramatic to make it 1d4/2TP spent.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
The wording is awkward in places (it’s a complex power with a lot of clarifications needed) but I’m pretty happy with that. I’m considering moving it to level 6 to make it available earlier, especially as it became a centerpiece ability with the later features. It’s meant to encourage tactical thinking and rewards strategy, which is the hook of the warlord. And while it can grant that extra attack, but isn't as limited as “make and extra attack”.

Poking away at the extra action subclass at the moment. At-will attack granting still might be too much. But once every short rest is too rarely.
I’m really leaning on “when you roll initiative” as a recharge mechanic for warlord. Possibly too much...

And the solution is to use battlemaster dice.

Tactical Warlord
Lvl 1. Inspiring word (1g8+WL level, subclass abilites)
Lvl 2. "Healing Surge" or chanel divinity equivilent, 2 gambits
Lvl 3. Subclass ability, battleaster dice
Level 4. ASI
Level 5. +1 gambit, grant action/short rest

Assuming 2 short rests thats 15 granting something per long resy, you can get the martial adept feat that is another dice 6/short rest
At this point you're probably overpowering vs Sorcer but you can't lob a fireball as an option. If you have a gambit that is grant an attack+riderthats around 18 attack grant/long rest

(4 dice,+1 dice via feat,+1 gambit, +1 action grant). Thats 7/short rest, 21 over a long rest including 3 action grant.
 
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Zardnaar

Legend
I did that earlier: http://www.dmsguild.com/product/174898/5MWD-Presents-Maneuvers--Commander

But feedback given to WotC shows that people prefer to leave superiority dice as the battle master’s “thing”. So I’ll respect that...

So make a functional class, screw what others say.

Make attack granting a short rest ability number of time= to you proficiency bonus. You get that ability at level 3.

At higher levels you can do it 6/times and can take gambits as well.
You could also grant the it at level 2 I suppose since its weaker than BM dice. Maybe even level 1 is its 2/short rest but it makes it a great level dip.
 
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FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
So make a functional class, screw what others say.

Make attack granting a short rest ability number of time= to you proficiency bonus. You get that ability at level 3.

At higher levels you can do it 6/times and can take gambits as well.
You could also grant the it at level 2 I suppose since its weaker than BM dice. Maybe even level 1 is its 2/short rest but it makes it a great level dip.

I’m still curious about how David Jester feels battlemaster dice aren’t too much like spells for a warlord to use.
 

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