Has anyone had a player in their game, not something you saw or heard about, but in their game say "that's not how it is in the books"? GH, FR, Mystara, PS, whatever? Not once have I heard that, or, if I have, I said "it's different in my version" and that was the end of it. Have any of you actually experienced that?
-
The VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX is LIVE! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Let's Forget the Forgotten Realms
- Thread starter Morrus
- Start date
Gamerstable_Jayson
First Post
This would be a dream come true!
Great post Morrus!
I prefer Greyhawk, and I've been playing on Oerth with my pals for the better part of 30 years, with the occasional jaunt to Mystara, Toril, Krynn, etc. It is our blank canvas that we have lovingly added detail to over the years to the framework and basic info we were given. A place where our PC's were the heroes, only rarely rubbing elbows with Tenser, Mordenkainen and their ilk. On the rare trip to Toril it was easy for my first level guy to feel like a grain of sand on a beach. It was detailed and unchangeable. Inflexible even. GH gave us an area of Oerth to deal with that was roughly the size of Europe and the Med with a larger (smaller) map to tantalize you into sailing off the edge of the Darlene Map to explore these unknow lands and name them ourselves. Toril is a planets worth of detailed info, some of which was shoehorned into the Realms after EGG was forced out of TSR. Some of that was originally intended for GH I might add... Yeah, I'm not bitter. Part of my disdain for WotC stemms from their non-support of GH. If they came back to Greyhawk they would definitely have my attention.
Jayson @ Gamerstable | A roundtable podcast about tabletop roleplaying games and other nerd culture topics.
Great post Morrus!
I prefer Greyhawk, and I've been playing on Oerth with my pals for the better part of 30 years, with the occasional jaunt to Mystara, Toril, Krynn, etc. It is our blank canvas that we have lovingly added detail to over the years to the framework and basic info we were given. A place where our PC's were the heroes, only rarely rubbing elbows with Tenser, Mordenkainen and their ilk. On the rare trip to Toril it was easy for my first level guy to feel like a grain of sand on a beach. It was detailed and unchangeable. Inflexible even. GH gave us an area of Oerth to deal with that was roughly the size of Europe and the Med with a larger (smaller) map to tantalize you into sailing off the edge of the Darlene Map to explore these unknow lands and name them ourselves. Toril is a planets worth of detailed info, some of which was shoehorned into the Realms after EGG was forced out of TSR. Some of that was originally intended for GH I might add... Yeah, I'm not bitter. Part of my disdain for WotC stemms from their non-support of GH. If they came back to Greyhawk they would definitely have my attention.
Jayson @ Gamerstable | A roundtable podcast about tabletop roleplaying games and other nerd culture topics.
Warunsun
First Post
Sure. I heard this a few times in an AD&D second edition Forgotten Realms campaign. Had two players chiming in about stuff they had read mostly in the Du'Urden novels and mostly regarding Drow. At the time I told them I mostly based my campaign on the Grey box and didn't use the novels as a source. They mostly accepted that but I did hear occasional complaints regarding those novels. Even recently, under fourth edition, I had a player discussing making a drow PC with an angle from these Du'Urden books.
Jeff Carlsen
Adventurer
See, if I'm a player in an established setting, I like being able to know the world I'm in, so it bothers me if the DM says, "That's not how it works in my version." Sure, the DM has that right, but it's frustrating.
That's where less detailed worlds have an advantage. There's less to contradict because there is less to know.
Also, a less detailed world leaves everyone wanting to know more than is available. That may seem bad, but not knowing is the real source of wonderment. People discuss and speculate about parts of a setting they only have clues for. Knowing everything takes the magic away.
That's where less detailed worlds have an advantage. There's less to contradict because there is less to know.
Also, a less detailed world leaves everyone wanting to know more than is available. That may seem bad, but not knowing is the real source of wonderment. People discuss and speculate about parts of a setting they only have clues for. Knowing everything takes the magic away.
JoeGKushner
First Post
M'eh?
The Forgotten Realms is a huge setting and has something for everyone.
While it can be a little vanillia and overrun with storylines pushed by fiction and gaming, that can be a strength as well as a hindrance.
With games like Baldur's Gate and others out there, along with two old comic series, and hundreds of books, the setting's impact is far greater than its RPG setting.
In terms of why its so popular, in part, blame Dragon magazine. While I am not a fan of Ed's fiction, his game work speaks volumes and things like Pages From The Mages have been staples since first edition.
If you don't know the Forgotten Realms its a choice.
It's a setting not for everyone. Some left with the Avatar series where D&D made the move from 1st to 2nd. Everyone was fairly happy with the non-event to 3rd edition. To show that fan reaction doesn't matter, WoTC made an event that made the Avatar crisis look small in comparission and not only changed the setting but did a time leap. Not every era is for everyone.
If the PDF's ever come back, I'd recommend getting the 'Gray' Boxed set. If you have the Dragon PDF compilation on CD, I'd recommend looking at the pre-100 issues for Ed's gaming material. He's got some fantastic stuff there.
The Forgotten Realms is a huge setting and has something for everyone.
While it can be a little vanillia and overrun with storylines pushed by fiction and gaming, that can be a strength as well as a hindrance.
With games like Baldur's Gate and others out there, along with two old comic series, and hundreds of books, the setting's impact is far greater than its RPG setting.
In terms of why its so popular, in part, blame Dragon magazine. While I am not a fan of Ed's fiction, his game work speaks volumes and things like Pages From The Mages have been staples since first edition.
If you don't know the Forgotten Realms its a choice.
It's a setting not for everyone. Some left with the Avatar series where D&D made the move from 1st to 2nd. Everyone was fairly happy with the non-event to 3rd edition. To show that fan reaction doesn't matter, WoTC made an event that made the Avatar crisis look small in comparission and not only changed the setting but did a time leap. Not every era is for everyone.
If the PDF's ever come back, I'd recommend getting the 'Gray' Boxed set. If you have the Dragon PDF compilation on CD, I'd recommend looking at the pre-100 issues for Ed's gaming material. He's got some fantastic stuff there.
Alphastream
Adventurer
I used to feel this way, but the more I read about the history of both Greyhawk and FR the more I had to admire FR. Now, no doubt, Greyhawk is my favorite traditional fantasy setting. But I really have to be impressed by what Ed Greenwood did from the age of 9 or some-such to create a really detailed and interesting world. He just wrote and wrote (and wrote well).
In contrast, Greyhawk was really just a bunch of separate areas and dungeons that were finally woven together and expanded upon, largely when it became completely apparent that a world would sell well (and stave off competition).
I like what Greyhawk became. It is a great setting. But I've also been impressed by what FR has produced over the years... and from the very beginning. I also recognize that FR has had incredible success with novels. That alone is a great reason to see it as a focus of D&D Next (if what has been written is true).
I do want to see Greyhawk come back, but I'm patient. I want to see it released when it can be properly cared for. I don't want the 4E Eberron treatment of two books and no love, or even the very good Dark Sun treatment (with great DDI, organized play, and game day support). I want Wizards to really feel the passion and create a new version that can make the fans proud. I'll gladly wait until 6E for that to happen.
Separately, it is interesting to note that in Designers and Dungeons Shannon Appelcline claims that for FR and Dragonlance "The sales figures for both worlds stayed about the same for much of their lifetimes". That's a really curious claim (especially since he seems to be considering all aspects of the worlds) and I would be interested to hear if others feel they have certainty to either back that up or state otherwise.
In contrast, Greyhawk was really just a bunch of separate areas and dungeons that were finally woven together and expanded upon, largely when it became completely apparent that a world would sell well (and stave off competition).
I like what Greyhawk became. It is a great setting. But I've also been impressed by what FR has produced over the years... and from the very beginning. I also recognize that FR has had incredible success with novels. That alone is a great reason to see it as a focus of D&D Next (if what has been written is true).
I do want to see Greyhawk come back, but I'm patient. I want to see it released when it can be properly cared for. I don't want the 4E Eberron treatment of two books and no love, or even the very good Dark Sun treatment (with great DDI, organized play, and game day support). I want Wizards to really feel the passion and create a new version that can make the fans proud. I'll gladly wait until 6E for that to happen.
Separately, it is interesting to note that in Designers and Dungeons Shannon Appelcline claims that for FR and Dragonlance "The sales figures for both worlds stayed about the same for much of their lifetimes". That's a really curious claim (especially since he seems to be considering all aspects of the worlds) and I would be interested to hear if others feel they have certainty to either back that up or state otherwise.
btmcrae
First Post
Perhaps players knowing about as much as their characters would is no longer a novel idea...
Oh, don't listen to him. He doesn understand those of us who must know everything.
And don't listen to him, as he thinks he knows everything, but very much knows nothing. "The magic" of the game, the "knowing/not knowing", is a wily and cunning mistress.
Oh, there those two go again, always arguing about whether it is better to know everything or know only what your character would know.
Hey! I'm here too! You and me are the same! I have bouts of multiple personality disorder while posting too!
Sometimes...or so they tell me.
************************
Anyways, FR will likely stick around, but it would be nice to see a slew of products that would be fresh and new/new-ish. Besides, there is the 4E FR debacle to consider. Some people might like what WotC did with FR in 4E, but I know plenty of hard core "I gotta have EVERYTHING FR!!!" fans who loathed it and would buy none of it. FR was great(and very, very well received) once, but at this point I think it would be very healthy for FR to have a little downtime in way of cleansing the FR community's palette so to speak. Until the recent FR becomes the stuff of suppressed memory, a return to Greyhawk would be a very good thing overall, both for Greyhawk fans and, in the end, for FR fans as well.
The timing and conditions are about as good as they are going to get for a Greyhawk rebirth. Hopefully WotC will strike while the iron is hot, and that they get some decent writers who are more than passingly familiar with the setting.
Gamerstable_Jayson
First Post
Perhaps players knowing about as much as their characters would is no longer a novel idea...
Oh, don't listen to him. He doesn understand those of us who must know everything.
And don't listen to him, as he thinks he knows everything, but very much knows nothing. "The magic" of the game, the "not knowing/not knowing", is a wily and cunning mistress.
Oh, there those two go again, always arguing about whether it is better to know everything or know only what your character would know.
Hey! I'm here too! You and me are the same! I have bouts of multiple personality while posting too!
Sometimes...or so they tell me.
(Seriously though, I do know what you are getting at.)
************************
Anyways, FR will likely stick around, but it would be nice to see a slew of products that would be fresh and new/new-ish. Besides, there is the 4E FR debacle to consider. Some people might like what WotC did with FR in 4E, but I know plenty of hard core "I gotta have EVERYTHING FR!!!" fans who loathed it and would buy none of it. FR was great(and very, very well received) once, but at this point I think it would be very healthy for FR to have a little downtime in way of cleansing the FR community's palette so to speak. Until the recent FR becomes the stuff of suppressed memory, a return to Greyhawk would be a very good thing overall, both for Greyhawk fans and, in the end, for FR fans as well.
The timing and conditions are about as good as they are going to get for a Greyhawk rebirth. Hopefully WotC will strike while the iron is hot, and that they get some decent writers who are more than passingly familiar with the setting.
I think most of those writers work for Paizo.
But wouldn't it be glorious to have GH back in print? New material? New source books that tempt with new ideas to expand upon... I'm getting chills just thinking about it.
