Let's help Mouseferatu with the APG

[Alisair Longreach]

As most of us already know, Ari Marmell (Mouseferatu) is writing the Advanced Player's Guide for Necromancer Games which is a sourcebook with "missing" races and classes and stuff for fourth edition Dungeons & Dragons.

We all know that the Gnome and Half-Orc as well as the Barbarian, Bard, Druid, Monk and Sorcerer classes might not be in the 4E Player's Handbook but they will be included in the Advanced Player's Guide.

In this thread I propose that we give Ari our input and suggestions on what else we would like to see included in the APG.

I start with a suggestion for the Illusionist class with the inclusion of a few useful feats and a bunch of "missing" classic 1E Illusion spells.

I'd also like to see a Necromancer class with several Undead creation/control/summoning talents as well as a bunch of nasty, icky Necromancy spells including some "missing" 1E and 2E spells.

A few Paragon Paths like Assasin and Conjuror would also be cool.

A Hairfoot Halfling race like Tolkien's Hobbit for those who don't like 4E Cajun Kender Halfling.


Anyone else have some ideas and suggestions?

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey there!

Given that all those races and classes you named will almost certainly be in the PHB2 what I would like to see from any Advanced Players Guide is something unexpected or original.

In terms of design, I really like the idea of a specific race having a specific class as favourite. So if you are designing a new race be sure to have its class counterpart or vice versa.

Orc Barbarian
Mind Flayer Psion
Celestial Bard
Shifter Druid
Thri-Kreen Monk

While I am sure some of those are Product Identity, you get the idea.

 

[Mouseferatu]

Hey, guys.

I appreciate the thought, and I very much appreciate the interest.

But there are two important points to consider here.

First, I'm only one of the writers on this book; it's not 100% mine.

Second, and more importantly, I'm already mostly finished with my portions of the book, and about to move on to other deadlines. That doesn't mean I won't be very interested in seeing what people want, but it means that I honestly can't promise to take too much of it into account at this point.

Still, while I won't for one minute pretend that I'll be able to include everything that everyone wants to see, I hope most of you will be happy with what I do have.

 

[Rechan]

Artificer.

Alchemist.

How about a honest to god Transmuter?

 

[WhatGravitas]

Given that all those races and classes you named will almost certainly be in the PHB2 what I would like to see from any Advanced Players Guide is something unexpected or original.

Considering Orcus' press announcement:

2. Advanced Player's Guide: To be designed in part by industry insider Ari Marmell, if they left classes and races out, we put them back in (Of course, we can't say if bards or druids or barbarians or gnomes or half-orc are or arent in 4th edition, but we know some stuff has been cut, and whatever is missing we will create for you with work by respected designer Ari Marmell.)

I think the point of the APG (at least partially) is to put in "classic" stuff left out, even if it will be replaced later, just as with the ToH. To give us something now. Of course there's nothing wrong with putting some original stuff into it.

So to start the input and suggestions:

Wizards: Putting in spells, powers and/or feats to broaden their scope, to facilitate enchanters, transmuters, in short: Get back what was omitted from the "classic" list to avoid an evocation-centric wizard. Of course this largely depends on the omissions.

Artificer: For those Eberronites starving until '09.

Optional powers/feats/talents: Many things in 4E are probably very good, so there's no point in re-introducing too much core classes (unless it's something big, as bard) - instead offer optional ways to modify existing classes to be closer to old class staples, like barbarians (for fighters) or druids (for clerics).

Races: Of course, gnomes. But a nice touch would be alternate races (as mentioned above), as well as racial feats to take the course of a race into new directions.

Henchman/animal companion/paladin mount/familiar support: Self-explanatory, though some ideas on henchmen would be completely new - in general, a way for PCs to acquire allies for combat (of any type, including mystic things)

Cheers, LT.

 

[Voss]

I'm curious as to what this APG is going to look like. What were you working on thats 'almost finished' when the 4e books aren't even at that point yet?

It seems dodgy to assume the book will have mechanical material that will be compatible with 4e when those rules aren't finalized yet.

 

[ZombieRoboNinja]

I'm curious as to what this APG is going to look like. What were you working on thats 'almost finished' when the 4e books aren't even at that point yet?

It seems dodgy to assume the book will have mechanical material that will be compatible with 4e when those rules aren't finalized yet.

He's not allowed to say it because of the NDA, but Orcus (from Necromancer) has confirmed that he's one of the freelancers who got an advanced copy of the 4e rules. So he's been able to do most of his design work with at least semi-complete rules, and once the actual official rules go out to Necromancer et al they can adjust for late-game changes to the core rules.

 

[The Little Raven]

He's not allowed to say it because of the NDA, but Orcus (from Necromancer) has confirmed that he's one of the freelancers who got an advanced copy of the 4e rules. So he's been able to do most of his design work with at least semi-complete rules, and once the actual official rules go out to Necromancer et al they can adjust for late-game changes to the core rules.

Hopefully they'll also have the opportunity to playtest it before they publish it.

 

[wykthor]

Shadowcaster, Shadowcaster and Shadowcaster.

This class rocks and the Shadowfell would invite it with a Rug of Welcome

 

[HeinorNY]

We all know that the Gnome and Half-Orc as well as the Barbarian, Bard, Druid, Monk and Sorcerer classes might not be in the 4E Player's Handbook but they will be included in the Advanced Player's Guide.

Why would people be interested in this product if they know WotC will release those races and classes anyways in the near future. I'd rather just wait for the official product instead of ending up with redundant material.
Wouldn't it be better for the 3rd parties to stay away from Wotc's path?