Lets talk about charm person

[kenc]

This weekend my party was suprised by a nasty beholder. In the first couple of rounds the warrior was hit with charm person and failed his save. Now the warrior thinks this beholder is his friend/ally, this beholder who had just killed his brother and was threatning the rest of his party is now supposed to be my friend. Now I can accept the fact I was charmed and now think of the Beholder as a friend from there the DM and I go down different paths.

The DM ruled that since I was charmed I would not attack the Beholder, that was fine spell description pretty much says that. He ruled so long as the Beholder did not directly threaten me I would do nothing (not exactly I did attempt to roleplay making peace between my old friends and my new friend)

My posistion was that since the Beholder was attacking and slaying my other friends I should at the very least get attatude adjustment rolls, with modifiers if not a new saving throw.

Being an old player I know better then to argue with the DM during the game but this is sure to come up some more. So how have others handled this situation with Charm Person?

 

[DarkMaster]

I think there are no simple answer to this, depends on the personality of your player. Ask yourself what would you do if two of your good friends were fighting, would you try to split them appart and try to reason them. Take one of your friend side because he/she defends a cause that you strongly believe in. In that case you still don't want to hurt you're other friend.

Since your real friends probably have an agenda more similars to yours you might take their side but recommand to only hit the beholder with non lethal damage.

Don't forget charm person only makes the beholder a new friend but you still have your own beliefs. But if your character has a low wisdom and the charmer has a higher charisma than most of your party member, his new friends might easily "corrupt it's mind with new idea"(notice how some people when they get a new lover have a tendency of changing to accomodate their new love).

Their are no written answer to your question, only good role playing will solve this issue.

 

[Hardhead]

I agree - there's no easy answer. The charmed character will probably side with the Beholder (dealing nonlethal damage, to his friends of course).

There's some good guidelines in the DMG on charms. Can't remember the page number, but check the 3.5 DMG's index for "Charm and Compulsion" (not sure if it's in the 3.0 DMG).

 

[jgsugden]

The key words in the spell description: "trusted friend and ally." Other key words "perceives your words and actions in the most favorable way."

How would your PC treat a 'trusted friend and ally' in that situation, when perceiving that friend or ally in the most favorable way?

If the beholder is locked in combat with the other PCs, you'd probably perceive this as an unjust attack on your ocular friend. That seems a likely 'most favorable' view. Depending upon the situation, other 'most favorable views' may be better, but that seems to be a very common best view.

From there, what would you do? That depends upon the PC and his personality/alignment.

A CE assassin that is willing to stab his own mother to steal her gold might look at which side seems like it is going to win before jumping back into the battle on the winner's side. "Sorry, Eleven Eyes, I love you like a brother, but I have a rule about staying on the side of the winners!"

A LG paladin might be horrified by the battle and try to do everything in his power to stop the fighting.

This spell is hard to ajudicate because the situations surrounding the casting tend to make it hard to imagine viewing the charmer as a 'trusted frined or ally', but that is how it works.

 

[Otterscrubber]

The key words in the spell description: "trusted friend and ally." Other key words "perceives your words and actions in the most favorable way."

Ah...but favorable to who? The charmed person? The caster? I personally think the caster (obviously) but you know there are lawyers out there who will argue this. Charm, Suggestion, Dominate all have extremely subjective wording. As such it is hard to give advice as it will boil down to the opinions of the DM and the players involved. If you plan to play an enchanter-type caster, get to know your DM, make friends, buy him a nice xmas present. This is the only way to predict how enchantment spells will pan out.

Scenarios like the one posted above are hard though. I think the DM played it fair though according to the desciption of Charm Person. You view the Beholder as highly or more so than your actual companions. From your perpective he is a member of the group now and your group is fighting amongst themesleves. How would you normally resolve this.

 

[Ace]

I like the Arcana Unearthed version of Charm Person myself

It gives the caster +10 on all social skill rolls against the person charmed. Even a socially clueless mage can get a 20 on a social skill check with a little effort-- and Sorcerers well how about bluff checks of around 35--


Of course I am the kind nephew

Another option for Charm Person is too simply have it raise a "reaction" roll by 3 catagories maximum for Friendly than go from there

Really hostile folks become neutral-- shaded friendly and capture PC's instead of killing them and so on

 

[Hardhead]

I like the Arcana Unearthed version of Charm Person myself

It gives the caster +10 on all social skill rolls against the person charmed. Even a socially clueless mage can get a 20 on a social skill check with a little effort-- and Sorcerers well how about bluff checks of around 35--


Of course I am the kind nephew

Another option for Charm Person is too simply have it raise a "reaction" roll by 3 catagories maximum for Friendly than go from there

Really hostile folks become neutral-- shaded friendly and capture PC's instead of killing them and so on

That's great if you want to houserule a new verson of Charm Person into existence, but he's asking about the PHB one.

I reiterate - read the advice in the DMG. In the example it gives, the charmed character tries to subdue his friends so they'll stop attacking (unjustly, in his mind) his new trusted ally.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

How the spell works in my opinion would be based a lot on what the beholder did after the charm person was cast.

If the beholder immediatly turns to the charmed person and says:

"Please friend warrior I am only trying to defend myself from the attacks of these people."

or

"Please friend warrior I only attacked your companions out of fear for my life."

Then I can see the charmed fighter either trying to break up the fight or fighting alongside the beholder.

If on the other hand the beholder says nothing and just keeps blasting away at the fighters party then the fighter will have much more leeway since the beholder has said nothing for the fighter to take in the most favorable light.

Make sense?

To me charm person allows you to lie with perfect believability because it makes the target of the spell want to do anything to believe what you say.

It does not though suddenly make the fighter lose his memory, forget his friends, or gain memories that the beholder is some great long time buddy. And since it does not do those it is rather hard to come up with a way to turn the fighter on the party.

Of course there are exceptions to this.

Example. The party is all evil and the beholder has charmed the CE party fighter. He sees the battle continue and sees that with just a little effort he can help his new friend the beholder slay everyone (which the CE fighter might have wanted to do at some point for all their loot). In this situation the lack of party loyalty makes the spell much more effective since the magical "feelings" created by the charm person do not have real feeling for fellow party members to contend with in the fighter.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Consider this situation: You're traveling with your party when a party member who has left you some time ago shows up again - and he and the other party members start to fight each other. They're all your friends (the newcomer a very good one), and they're fighting. How do you react?



If you have done that, you answered your question.



The answer isn't always the same. Sometimes you don't know the other party members very much yet and haven't taken their measure yet. Sometimes you travel with life-long friends. And sometimes you find yourself in a party of scheming bastards where every one tries to stab the other in the back (I have played in such a group, it wasn't nice. You'll also find such a party of individuals in the War of the Spider Queen series)

 

[borc killer]

Here is how we would handle it.

Beholder charms the fighter so now the fighter sees the beholder as his most "trusted friend and ally."
Beholder says "these foul beings are not your friends! These are doppelgangers that an evil Balor has sent to kill me! Once we kill these doppelgangers we can go rescue your friends from the Balor!"
Fighter says "sound reasonable to me. Die evil scum!"
Party says “anyone got a CoP:Evil?”
Cleric says "I do" and walks up and touches the fighter... who makes his will save against the CoP:Evil and then kills the cleric... LOL

Now if the Beholder does not make any such actions or clams... then the fighter would just follow his alignment and try to stop his friends from killing each other.

Bork Killer