Let's Talk About Darkvision

[edbonny]

I am exploring the possibilities of all that darkvision allows in a campaign where I play a tiefling. Darkvision as officially written says this:

<<Darkvision is the extraordinary ability to see with no light source at all,
out to a range specified for the creature. Darkvision is black and white
only (colors cannot be discerned). It does not allow characters to see
anything that they could not see otherwise-invisible objects are still
invisible, and illusions are still visible as what they seem to be.
Likewise, darkvision subjects a creature to gaze attacks normally. The
presence of light does not spoil darkvision.>>

Granted that (and please offer your reasons why), can a person with darkvision do the following?

> Read and write in the dark? I say this is possible as you are dealing with (generally) dark ink on white paper.
> In a lightless environment, can a person with darkvision look into a mirror and see his reflection? Would such a person even recognize a mirror while using darkvision? Does a mirror just look like a piece of glass on the wall?
> In a lightless environment, can a person with darkvision look through a window and see what is on the other side?

- Ed

 

[Thanee]

Reading should be no problem, it's just black and white.

Mirrors and windows are a bit trickier. I'd probably just have them work normally, because it is the easiest, but if you want a more physics-adequate answer, that's kinda hard to do without knowing the basics on what principles darkvision operates.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

You cannot read using darkvision, because you cannot distinguish color.

Thus, the differentiation of color which makes it possible to see the written words is not visible - it would look like a piece of paper.

Why do you think dwarves carve runes into rock? Because you can see the change in the surface.

A mirror - which reflects light - would look like a blank plane of glass. Note that this probably won't save you from a Mirror of Opposition, or a similar item, which merely requires that you look at it.

You could not look through glass to see what's on the other side, as you'd just see the glass.

 

[edbonny]

You cannot read using darkvision, because you cannot distinguish color.

Thus, the differentiation of color which makes it possible to see the written words is not visible - it would look like a piece of paper.

Why couldn't a person with darkvision see black ink on white paper (no color)? Darkvision allows one to see anything that is able to be seen in normal light (except that what you see is in black and white).

For that matter, can one see shades of grey with darkvision?

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Why couldn't a person with darkvision see black ink on white paper (no color)? Darkvision allows one to see anything that is able to be seen in normal light (except that what you see is in black and white).

For that matter, can one see shades of grey with darkvision?

Because the only difference between "paper" and "paper with ink" is the color of that paper.

If you put a piece of blue paper, red paper, and purple paper next to each other and slightly overlapping, the person with darkvision shouldn't be able to tell the difference - they are unable to distinguish color.

If you change the middle piece to black paper, should they suddenly be able to tell the difference?

As for seeing shades of grey, yes, there are shades of grey. But they have nothing to do with real-world color.

I find that it works best if you think of darkvision as similar to echolocation - things are "colored" based on their distance - closer = whiter, farther = blacker.

Thus, engraved runes (dwarves' favored writing method) show up as dark writing on a lighter background, whereas ink on paper isn't enough of a difference in thickness to tell apart.

 

[edbonny]

Because the only difference between "paper" and "paper with ink" is the color of that paper.

If you put a piece of blue paper, red paper, and purple paper next to each other and slightly overlapping, the person with darkvision shouldn't be able to tell the difference - they are unable to distinguish color.

If you change the middle piece to black paper, should they suddenly be able to tell the difference?

As for seeing shades of grey, yes, there are shades of grey. But they have nothing to do with real-world color.

I find that it works best if you think of darkvision as similar to echolocation - things are "colored" based on their distance - closer = whiter, farther = blacker.

Thus, engraved runes (dwarves' favored writing method) show up as dark writing on a lighter background, whereas ink on paper isn't enough of a difference in thickness to tell apart.

I am not following your argument. Echolocation is not all a part of darkvision. It allows a person to see in the dark as if the area were illuminated. The only difference is that the person sees in black and white. Given that, why could not a person using darkvision see BLACK ink on WHITE paper?

 

[Empyreus]

I can read in the darkvision just fine!

But if you're seeing in black and white, those colored pieces of paper would be different shades of gray, just like in a black and white movie. While it might be hard to tell blue, red, and purple pieces of paper apart with darkvision (kind of like a color blind person who sees blue and green as the same color), text should still be perfectly readable because black text on white paper is already in black and white.

It's not literally only BLACK and WHITE, know what I'm sayin? Go convert an in-color jpeg to black and white grayscale, you'll see what I'm talking about (and you'll still see everything in the picture, even text!).

 

[MerakSpielman]

I always figured they saw in black and white the same way old movies and photographs are in black and white. I.e., what in computer terms we would call "Grayscale."

So if you could make out writing and reflections in a black and white movie, you could make them out with darkvision.

But characters with normal vision will likely find the cities of underdark races to be drab and devoid of interesting colors, should they view them in normal light.

 

[edbonny]

I always figured they saw in black and white the same way old movies and photographs are in black and white. I.e., what in computer terms we would call "Grayscale."

So if you could make out writing and reflections in a black and white movie, you could make them out with darkvision.

That is, without a doubt, the most brilliant metaphor for darkvision I have heard! Thank you very much for putting it in this light (pun intended).

- Ed

 

[jarlaxlecq]

That doesn't make any sense. They can see in black and white. They cant see color, as in other colors besides black and white. They would be able to read they just wouldn't be able to tell the differance between stuff written is red as oppose to blue.