Lets try this again- 4E FR Campaign Guide

[Keefe the Thief]

And to balance Shemeskas post out a bit: while the setting has changed and the number of gods may finally have actually fallen into two-digit numbers, its still the same old Realms you knew - but 100 years into the future. Approach it like the old "Arcane Age" setting that presented Netheril as a playable place - another point in the timeline you can explore and have fun in.

The continuity from 3e is pretty strong, and there are a lot of cool ideas included: like earthmotes, flying little earth-islands drifting through the sky, Comyrs imperial ambitions, the Red Wizards as exiles trying to clobber together a merchant empire etc.

Its ideal for a new campaign. Happy gaming!

 

[Piratecat]

Thanks, Jeff. Interesting thread. I was also curious about the changes.

 

[SpydersWebbing]

I own both, and they're both fantastic. I don't think of the two books (Campaign Guide and Player's Guide) as seperate entities, but two halves of the same coin. The books are obviously designed to be played with, which is a huge plus. A lot of people don't like the "lack" of detail, but considering how cluttered everything was before I found it nice that I actually had room to design an adventure.

If it wasn't for the fact that my own world (Everlost) is my little pet project I'd play this in a heartbeat.

Pick them up, they're good.

 

[Nifft]

Large portions of the world are simply no longer there. Excised. Deleted.

"They're just pining for the fjords!"

The biggest impact on PCs however is that because of the timejump and the slew of changes, there's no easy way to transition PCs from a 3e FR campaign into a 4e one. (...) The 4e Realms are effectively a new campaign setting compared to the 1e/2e/3e Realms.

Agreed. And honestly, the whole FR quest-dynamic has changed so much, from uber-NPCs asking PCs to do errand quests (in 3.x) into a grim PoL "you're on your own" kinda thing, that transitioning plots would be really tough even if PCs were expected to have survived.

I own both, and they're both fantastic. I don't think of the two books (Campaign Guide and Player's Guide) as seperate entities, but two halves of the same coin. The books are obviously designed to be played with, which is a huge plus. A lot of people don't like the "lack" of detail, but considering how cluttered everything was before I found it nice that I actually had room to design an adventure.

We once played some Star Wars RPG games, and my group's flavor lawyers (aka "canon lawyers", "fan•atics", "guys who can actually translate Shryyyyyyyywook", etc.) detracted from the experience. It's not that they were jerks about it or anything, but I could see them mentally gnashing their teeth whenever the GM flubbed up some point of Star Wars lore, or got creative in a manner that (unknowingly) contradicted the aforestated lore. It reduced their fun, and I think that served to inhibit the GM.

Just as System Mastery has come under criticism for rewarding a minority of players, IMHO we saw previous editions of FR reward a minority of DMs who could achieve Setting Mastery. It's nice to see both forms of SM scaled back.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Jack99]

I like both, as noted in my reviews. For what it is worth, I was never the huge fan of the 3e version, I prefered the grey box. I found the 4e FR campaign guide to be an excellent framework for your game/campaign. A framework, this is important. It means you have to build your own stuff, aside from the adventures, at least if you want details en masse.

Now, if you are looking for a book that tells you what the price of roasted dragon steak is in an Inn in Waterdeep, this is definitely not the book you are looking for.

 

[mach1.9pants]

Well if you are after a 'framework' to apply your DM skills to then the FR books are ideal. I would imagine that Eberron is going to be the same. The realms are huge with a lot of history to explain and the info is contained in 2 books, they are not both full thickness (160 and 288 pages) and they use the 4E lay out and font (meaning both books together have about the content of 1/3 of the mammoth 3E guide, at the most). Therefore you can imagine how much info you get on each area, not much, 2 sides including small incredibly un-detailed map. However they are full of plot hooks (one sentence ones) and give all the high level info you need (gods, etc).
To me they are an ideal mine for ideas or framework for a campaign but very poor if you want to run a campaign with minimal work. If you as a DM were to knock up the same amount of info included in one region of the realms plus the high level stuff for a home brew campaign (for example my favourite campaign start of an Ireland sized island far off the main continent) would only take a couple of evenings work*.
So, in short, if you want the exact opposite of the 3E (and previous) glut of realms lore rulebooks then it is for you.
Or you can use it as an inspiration mine for your own campaign like I do.

*EDIT: Maybe a bit harsh more like 5 evenings.

 

[JeffB]

Thanks everyone! This thread has proven extremely informative (and I found the countdown articles on the WOTC website- DEF useful as was the Red Wizards article-surprisingly I did a similar thing with TRW many years ago when I ran FR using a hybrid of Cloak & Dagger and the 3.0 book as the inspiration)

As with the 3.0 book when it came out, I like many of the changes I'm hearing about, and am not a fan at all of others. Overall sounds positive to me (barring the map/s). Surprising amount of upheaval though!

The "framework" approach many have mentioned is exactly what I want, so I'll be picking up a copy of the 4E FRCG as soon as I am able AND the OGB box (again) as well!

and by all means , please continue to post if anyone has something to add

 

[NiTessine]

I wrote a fairly lengthy review back when the Campaign Guide came out. I detest the new Realms, but I do go into some detail on what the book has eaten. It's here: A Rant and a Review: Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide « Worlds in a Handful of Dice

For a second opinion, there's Gnome Stew's review, which is positive: 4th Edition Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide Review: Big Changes, Good Book, Crappy Map - Gnome Stew, the Game Mastering Blog

There's only one thing that we agree on - the map is ugly and riddled with errors.

 

[Windjammer]

I wrote a fairly lengthy review back when the Campaign Guide came out. I detest the new Realms, but I do go into some detail on what the book has eaten. It's here: A Rant and a Review: Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide « Worlds in a Handful of Dice

Just to say that this is my favourite review of the book to date, because it's both informative and is highly entertaining to read. (Favourite part: "[Some NPC] trades child slaves for the serpentfolk living nearby. They’re stored in barrels, shipped down the river to Loudwater, and there Zark hires the PCs to unload the cargo. There are hundreds of ways to handle slave trade well, and none of them involve bringing outsiders in direct contact with the merchandise. Another spectacularly idiotic plotline, here.") It also contains absolutely enviable prose, and is informed by a breadth and depth of learning (that most detested qualities in negative D&D reviews) that I haven't seen matched in quite some time.


Chiming in with some personal experience, I've for instance used the FRCG and the FRPG when prepping Skyfire Wastes, an early LFR try-out in and around Calimsham. I posted all relevant info from both books together, and still felt there wasn't really much (btw the info in "how to explain the Realms to your players" is much superior in FRPG to FRCG). So I guessit's fair to say that these books aren't source books as such (where 2E and 3E produced FR "source books") but collections of hooks to inspire you. There's not nearly enough to make for compelling adventure scenarios unless 1. you like the original hook greatly (a purely subjective matter, on which my experience has been mostly negative so far) and 2. you've plenty of inspiration to draw on to elaborate these hooks. Now 1. and 2. are closely related, because the quality of a hook goes a long way to fire your imagination.



In terms of scale, I'd compare this to the Greyhawk Red Box with its mini-write-ups for individual regions. In terms of quality, there's nothing like making your own opinion. Check out the previews on the WotC website for the book and make up your mind. And I mean it. Print one of these, or several of them, out and then sit down at your table for 30 minutes and see if you can work with it. If you can, that's a good sign. If you find them flat, stay away.

 

[Primal]

I don't like it, but if you're looking for a lore light FR which is even less detailed than using the Grey Boxed Set, you might like this. If you are a long-time fan, you need to remember that 4E FRCG does not explain a lot of the changes at all. If you're a new DM, this is far easier to pick up than 3E FRCS.

My biggest gripe with the book is the Loudwater section, which is (IMO) only suitable for use as toilet tissue. If you think the AD&D CRPGs during the 1980s had good-looking maps, exciting plots and well-written NPCs, you might disagree; otherwise, by Mystra's Lost Spell, this section offers very little for an experienced DM. Oh, and the world map is the suckiest I've seen so far.