Level 1 Gestalt Build help

[Shanti]

I'm still a relative newbie and my group is playing a gestalt campaign next week. This is the first time playing gestalt for me and I was hoping to get some help building a 1st level character using the elite array (15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8 arranged in any order).

The first two campaigns I've played with this group I played spellcasters which I love, but I think I'd like to step up and try some melee action this time around. The thought of not being able to cast any spells at all is a little tough for me to swallow, so I was leaning towards something like a Paladin/Monk, Cleric/Monk or maybe even just a Fighter/Rogue and have fun with sneak attack and such instead of casting spells.

Prestige classes are available with clearance from the DM, and I have the books "Sword and Fist" and "Blood and Tome" for extra feats/prestige classes in the fighter/monk or sorcerer/wizard areas. Anything else beyond the PHB with other classes aren't an option unless the books they're in show up at the local used bookstore.

Thanks in advance for the help!

 

[Creeping Death]

I'm still a relative newbie and my group is playing a gestalt campaign next week. This is the first time playing gestalt for me and I was hoping to get some help building a 1st level character using the elite array (15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8 arranged in any order).

The first two campaigns I've played with this group I played spellcasters which I love, but I think I'd like to step up and try some melee action this time around. The thought of not being able to cast any spells at all is a little tough for me to swallow, so I was leaning towards something like a Paladin/Monk, Cleric/Monk or maybe even just a Fighter/Rogue and have fun with sneak attack and such instead of casting spells.

Prestige classes are available with clearance from the DM, but I don't have any books beyond the PHB so any other classes aren't an option unless the books they're in show up at the local used bookstore.

Thanks in advance for the help!

You are still limited by the number of actions you can take in a single round. So you want to take classes that enhance each other for free. For example, fighter/rogue you get all the benefits of a fighter (full BAB, extra feats, higher HP) and the advantages of a rogue (reflex save, sneak attack, skill points). You still get upto 4 attacks with a full attack option but now do sneak attack damage in addition to having weapon specialization, greater weapon .... etc.

Another one would be Fighter/Barbarian. Full fighter abilities and can rage, take the frenzied berserker prestige class.

While the psion/mage sounds cool (well, it does to me) and they both share INT you still can only cast 1 spell or manifest 1 power a round. You are still limited by the number of actions per round. You do become more versatile. If you really like wizards then go fighter/wizard, use the fighter class to get access to martial weapons, higher HP, more feats (can only be used for for fighter approved feats but you should be able to pick out ones that will help your overall character), better fort save, then just act like a mage. Stay in the back, cast your spells, knowing full well that you will on average have twice the number of hitpoints that a non-gestalt mage will have.

Psy-warrior/fighter for the most feats though (I think the feats stack since they get them at different rates... going off of memory here please correct me if I'm wrong.)

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

With only elite array for stats, it is important to take classes that use similar ability scores if possible. It's been so long that I've been in a game withthe highest starting stat being 15 that I'm not sure if picking a primary casting class is that useful...at least unless you can get +2 to the stat from race (like a grey elf wizard).

If you don't want any casting at all, you should at least get full BAB, d8 or higher HD, 6 or 8+ int skill points, two or three good saves, and some nice class features out of the combination, if you want some standard to judge by.

Based on your allowed books, I assume this is a 3.0 game (as in, not the revised 3.5 edition)?

If not, I'd say Warlock is a very useful "other class" for a gestalt character, that gives a lot of passive abilities (so you can use your combat actions on the first class's abilities), adds a lot of versatility (reliable ranged attack, constant/endlessly renewable benefits like flight and invisibility), and doesn't really require...any high stats. (dex, cha, and con being the most important). It is found in Complete Arcane and would combine well with any full BAB class for someone who wishes to not cast any spells. You get spell-like abilities, but only about a dozen by level 20, and they're most often 24 hour buff effects, so it's not a hard class to progress or plan for.

 

[Shanti]

That standard is very helpful

We are playing with the 3.5 PHB, but I picked up a couple of extra books at a sale so that's where the other two supplementals came from.

Right now I'm looking at the fighter/rogue or maybe monk/cleric combinations. The Prestige Classes wouldn't be an option for me right now anyway since I wouldn't meet any requirements at level 1.

Monk/Cleric seems to have some neat options for unarmed attacks combined with touch spells, although losing all armor and not gaining much in the way of hit die, fort or will saves, bab etc seems like it might not be as high-powered as what the other players may come up with.

Fighter/Rogue seems like the perfect combination...you benefit from all the good in each.

Here's how I figure they stack up...let me know if I've calculated anything incorrectly!

Level 1 Fighter/Rogue
str - 15 - +2
con - 14 - +2
dex - 13 - +1
int - 12 - +1
wis - 10 - +0
cha - 08 - -1
hps - 12
frt - 4
ref - 3
wil - 0
bab - 3
ac+ - 1
skill points: 36
special: sneak attack +1d6, trapfinding, bonus feat
downside: light armor (to keep evasion)
upside: lots of feats and skills, lots of attack power later on, more attacks sooner

Level 1 Monk/Cleric
str - 15 - +2
con - 12 - +1
dex - 13 - +1
int - 10 - +0
wis - 14 - +2
cha - 08 - -1
hps - 9
frt - 3
ref - 3
wil - 4
bab - 2
ac+ - 3
skill points: 16
special: turn or rebuke undead, flurry of blows, unarmed strike, bonus feat
downside: no armor, lower hps
upside: touch spells combined with unarmed atacks, multiple attacks right away, healing

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Monk/Cleric seems to have some neat options for unarmed attacks combined with touch spells, although losing all armor and not gaining much in the way of hit die, fort or will saves, bab etc seems like it might not be as high-powered as what the other players may come up with.

One of my favorite core gestalt combos is actually Monk / Druid. As you mentioned with cleric, no gains in HD, skills, saves, or BAB. But the classes offer some rather scary combos. For example, Monk generally wants to full attack, to use flurry of blows. Druid provides that with wildshape, by turning into leopards, deinonychus (use d20srd.org for the revised medium-sized version), lions, tigers, and other animals with pounce. Keep in mind you can also do on that full attack charge your entire flurry of blows followed by every single natural weapon as a secondary attack (-5 to hit, half str to damage) and it gets really fun. combining monk's speed (applies to all movement modes) with avian forms is also nice. Turning into large animals to buff the monk's unarmed damage and grapple is another good combination. The druid has cruddy armor and weapon proficiencies to begin with, so using the monk's rules doesn't even take much away. In a low stat game, wildshape can also let you get away with a lower natural str and dex score, relying on forms to replace it.

And man, wouldn't it be satisfying to innocently fly up to someone as a butterfly and deliver a quivering palm?

 

[irdeggman]

Sword and Fist and Tomb and Blood are 3.0 supplements and not 3.5 ones.

Care should be used when trying to apply feats and such from those books as the applicable ones have mostly been included (and updated) in 3.5 supplements instead.

I think a "fun" gestalt combo would be soulknife/warlock.

That combination grants you an inexaustable supply of ranged and melee weapons as well as some pretty neat "add ons" to each - mind blade enhancements and warlock shape and essence invocations (to the eldritch blast).