D&D 5E Levitate on an unwilling creature

[JacktheRabbit]

I think what you quoted only applies to the caster.

That is, I read it as saying "If you cast this spell on yourself you can move up or down as part of your movement."

That is entirely possible, in which case it is VERY poorly written.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

I would say you ought to switch it to a save every round to negate if you find it too good in play as written

But you're left with figuring out what happens when that orc saves and is hanging 60 feet up in the air . . .

The spell says you float gently to the ground when the spell ends. So there is no risk, IF someone was the dispel the levitate then I would say you have a different story.

 

[Satyrn]

I wouldn't say very poorly. But it's not perfectly clear, I agree.

 

[Satyrn]

The spell says you float gently to the ground when the spell ends.

Oh that's no fun.

 

[DaveDash]

Levitate is a very powerful save or die spell against most creatures at lower levels. It's better than hold person, especially in the hands of a diviner with portent. It's basically save or die, and not restricted to humanoids. Plus it has other utilities beyond just crowd control.

Hold Person becomes better later on as the casters spell DC goes up and it can target multiple creatures with higher level slots. At very high levels due to flat saving throw bonuses not much is making DC16+ wisdom saving throws very easily. There's still a lot of humanoids in the game at higher levels - any NPC enemy for example.

 

[Sadras]

Levitate is a very powerful save or die spell against most creatures at lower levels. It's better than hold person, especially in the hands of a diviner with portent. It's basically save or die, and not restricted to humanoids. Plus it has other utilities beyond just crowd control.

Hold Person becomes better later on as the casters spell DC goes up and it can target multiple creatures with higher level slots. At very high levels due to flat saving throw bonuses not much is making DC16+ wisdom saving throws very easily. There's still a lot of humanoids in the game at higher levels - any NPC enemy for example.

All true, but we have to also keep in mind the designers of the game had the 6-8 encounters per adventuring day guideline, which means that yes these spells can be good but it would mean the save/suck will be balanced out over the course of the adventuring day. Ofc lesser encounters per adventuring day might mean that such spells have the possibility of becoming even more of an issue.

 

[DaveDash]

All true, but we have to also keep in mind the designers of the game had the 6-8 encounters per adventuring day guideline, which means that yes these spells can be good but it would mean the save/suck will be balanced out over the course of the adventuring day. Ofc lesser encounters per adventuring day might mean that such spells have the possibility of becoming even more of an issue.

Yes - however most of those encounters are typically quite easy. You save levitate for when you really need it.

That's also when DMs tend to get grumpy - it's not the 4 medium encounters you had during the day, it's the one that's meant to be hard that gets trivialised. In the hands of a diviner - levitate is really an I win button once or twice a day against A LOT of stock monsters.

Source: I'm playing a diviner right now and levitate is my go to CC spell at lower levels.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Levitate is a very powerful save or die spell against most creatures at lower levels. It's better than hold person, especially in the hands of a diviner with portent. It's basically save or die, and not restricted to humanoids. Plus it has other utilities beyond just crowd control.

Hold Person becomes better later on as the casters spell DC goes up and it can target multiple creatures with higher level slots. At very high levels due to flat saving throw bonuses not much is making DC16+ wisdom saving throws very easily. There's still a lot of humanoids in the game at higher levels - any NPC enemy for example.

Just keep in mind that 500lbs is not a lot. Most large creatures should be over the limit.
If you assume 100lbs for a lightweight humanoid that is medium size. And a large creature is about twice as big. If you retain all proportions and density, you are at 800lbs. So any big creature is out. Most small creatures have allies.
In most cases I'd say it is not too powerful.

Edit: and by the way, against monsters without ranged capabilities, a simple expeditious retreat is a first level no save and die spell. You can keep your distance and fire cantrips at your target. Ray of frost may be the best choice.

 

[Harzel]

the designers of the game had the 6-8 encounters per adventuring day guideline

At the risk of derailing my own thread, no, there is no guideline or other statement that says that 6-8 is better than any other number of encounters per adventuring day. That reading of the DMG is much like looking at a weight vs. height chart and concluding that 130 lbs is the ideal weight. To draw the analogy more closely, suppose you read the following:

Assuming an average build, a woman weighing 130-140 lbs. who is 5'4"-5'6" tall is at a healthy weight. If she is shorter, she should weigh less. If she is taller, a healthy weight for her would be greater.

​

I'm pretty sure that it is not reasonable to represent this as a guideline that women should weigh 130-140 lbs.

 

[Sadras]

At the risk of derailing my own thread, no, there is no guideline or other statement that says that 6-8 is better than any other number of encounters per adventuring day.

I'm not saying it is better. My post merely indicated that attrition is part of the game and having fewer encounters than perhaps what the designers intended will affect play. Do you disagree with that assessment?