LFG booted from DragonCon

[C_M2008]

Well, to be honest, I don't remember much about it. I'm quite positive it was the H1N1, because, well, that's what everyone's going on about these days.

The nurse that applied her the vaccine told her there were no side-effects, but she didn't seem that reliable, given that my sis had a high fever the day after she took it, it was her friends, other med students, that told her of the supposed sideeffect. IIRC, it happened on the first round of vaccines, so I have no idea if it's still an ongoing problem.

I'll try and ask her more about this when I see her, but I don't think it'll be anytime soon, due to our conflicting schedules- when I'm home, she's at the hospital, and when she's home, I'm at work.

And.... I think we should take this to PMs, we're clearly off-topic here >_>
Please do PM me later, to remind me of asking her, as you probably notice, my memory isn't exactly stellar

EDIT: Oh, look at what I found:

Yup, looks like Guillain–Barré was the someoneorother I forgot. It does say the risk is low, but even going for, say, .5% (anything under .5% is statistically negligible, if I remember my statistics classes right, don't know how it is for epidemiology), given a large enough sample, you are bound to get positives. I don't know how many people had the vaccine applied, but if it was to almost the whole population of Canada, I can see it reaching 1k cases.

Googling "Canada H1N1 Guillan-Barré Syndrome" will get you a ton of hits.

This comes across as typical American ignorance towards Canada (Yes most Americans don't act this way, but enough that there is a stereotype; any heresay horse***t story they hear about Canada must be true).

Recent Vaccination estimates were about 30% had gotten the vaccine(which would be ~10M people). This would be a major, major news story if it were true that 1K people were paralyzed. Yet I have heard nothing about it. Being someone that watches the news frequently (in various media forms) I don't think I would have missed such a story. In any event, 1/1,000,000 is damn insignificant, I think most people would find it to be an acceptable risk if they were in a high-risk group or had a family member in a high-risk group. I was also asked about which allergies I had before the shot was administered , I assume if there was a possibility of a reaction I wouldn't have been allowed to get the shot.

Fever and "sickness" are possible side-effects of any shot where a virus(living or dead) is injected into your body, your body's response is the reason for those symptoms and the immunity that develops(the whole point of getting a shot). Having flu symptoms is not something to complain about, the possibility should be expected, it certainly doesn't mean the vaccine doesn't work or isn't safe. Of course having caring medical staff that explain things to the uninformed also helps.

 

[fuzzlewump]

...right, does anyone go to any good gaming conventions in Texas? Specifically, around either Austin, Houston, San Antonio or Dallas? I haven't been to one, and I would definitely be interested.

 

[prosfilaes]

Regardless of how he acted, DragonCon was operating within their contract with him when they assigned him to a different booth, was more than generous when offering him a full refund, and is completely entitled to choose who they allow as guests at their event.

It's not more than generous to offer a full refund; in my experience, if you pay for something and don't get what was promised and you promptly take it up with the company, most companies will refund your money. It's not good enough to say "we're within our contract"; clauses like that are protection against legal suits, not ways to keep on good terms with your customers. (Your electric company doesn't promise continuous service, either, but that doesn't mean your electricity randomly shuts off without cause.) They're completely entitled to choose who they allow as guests, but if people feel DragonCon's response to problems is going to be throwing you out, they might just cut out a few steps and just not go.

 

[wedgeski]

Yup, looks like Guillain–Barré was the someoneorother I forgot. It does say the risk is low, but even going for, say, .5% (anything under .5% is statistically negligible, if I remember my statistics classes right, don't know how it is for epidemiology), given a large enough sample, you are bound to get positives.

If the risk of such a serious side-effect was as much as half of one percent, the vaccine would never be allowed out of the lab.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

From what I understand, the contract specifically indicated that they might end up in a different booth than they paid for. <snip> Regardless of how he acted, DragonCon was operating within their contract with him when they assigned him to a different booth, was more than generous when offering him a full refund, and is completely entitled to choose who they allow as guests at their event.

Was the convention within their legal rights do do as they did? Certainly.

But as has been pointed out, just because something can be done, doesn't mean it should be done. The "unvite" is a potentially bad business practice.

IME with other conventions (mostly trade shows for jewelry, guitars and the medical & entertainment fields), a retailer with a paid booth who gets relocated usually has either a partial or full refund for that convention. For regular attendees, a discount on the next convention after that is virtually assured- not an "unvite." If you're a pain in the butt, the typical response is you get a worse booth location the next time around...again, not an "unvite." To get an "unvite," you REALLY have to tick someone off.

Now, I don't know if LFG had/has a bad track record that led to this, but if I were running a Con in this economic climate, I wouldn't "unvite" anybody willing to pay for a booth.

 

[Mark Chance]

...right, does anyone go to any good gaming conventions in Texas? Specifically, around either Austin, Houston, San Antonio or Dallas? I haven't been to one, and I would definitely be interested.

I don't know about the others, but Houston is pretty much a convention wasteland since NanCon folded years ago. At least, as far as I know, it is.

We've got OwlCon at Rice U in February: OwlCon, an Annual Gaming Convention at Rice University, Houston, TX

There's ConJour at the end of January: Con-Jour Home, Houston , Clear lake, Gaming, Sci-fi, Fantasy, Conventions

This site has a list with other links: What's Happening Convention Calendar

 

[Dausuul]

Because they weren't alive last time there was an H1N1 around.

Most of them still live, unless they have respiratory pre-existing conditions. And even them most of them still live. It's seriously not much worse than regular flu, even if you've never been exposed to an H1N1. Half the students in my department had it, and almost all of them are under 24. My wife was actually one of the worst cases I've heard about, and we didn't have to go to the hospital or anything. And she has asthma. Put her on her back for a few days and severely curtailed her diet.

People old enough that they should be having kids have probably had some exposure in the past.

"Pandemic" does not mean "deadly." It means "widespread." The CDC is, as usual, going the CYA route. And the media is, as usual, going the "scare everyone out of their mind" route.

Fun fact: The deadliest forms of flu can actually hit the young and healthy harder than older people. Basically, they send your immune system into a crazy positive-feedback loop. The more robust your immune system is, the faster that loop builds on itself and the more likely it is to kill you. That's how the 1918 Spanish flu pandemic did so much damage, and it's why H5N1 (avian flu) is so dangerous.

That said, there's little indication that H1N1 does this. As you say, it's basically just a more infectious version of regular flu. While it's considered a pandemic because of its rapid spread, it's not causing mass deaths.

Back on topic: With the caveat that we haven't heard DragonCon's side of the story, if this claim is true, it's very shoddy treatment. Legal? Sure. I have no doubt it's within the letter of the contract. But it's extremely unprofessional and no way to behave toward a customer.

Cheating on your girlfriend/boyfriend is legal, but that doesn't mean you should do it.

 

[CubeKnight]

This comes across as typical American ignorance towards Canada (Yes most Americans don't act this way, but enough that there is a stereotype; any heresay horse***t story they hear about Canada must be true).

Just for the record, I'm as much an American as someone from Canada is (meaning, I do live in America, but I don't live in the USA).

If the risk of such a serious side-effect was as much as half of one percent, the vaccine would never be allowed out of the lab.

Yeah, that's why I said that was from my general statistics class way back in college. I have no idea what are the standards in epidemiology/vaccines/medicine in general.

 

[Jeremy Ackerman-Yost]

Fun fact: The deadliest forms of flu can actually hit the young and healthy harder than older people. Basically, they send your immune system into a crazy positive-feedback loop. The more robust your immune system is, the faster that loop builds on itself and the more likely it is to kill you. That's how the 1918 Spanish flu pandemic did so much damage, and it's why H5N1 (avian flu) is so dangerous.

That said, there's little indication that H1N1 does this. As you say, it's basically just a more infectious version of regular flu. While it's considered a pandemic because of its rapid spread, it's not causing mass deaths.

As far as I can tell, around here it's causing fewer deaths than seasonal flu does most years. I don't follow that literature anymore, though, so I can't say with any certainty.

But it remains that this is NOT a huge risk to individuals. It is a "public health risk" only insofar as it eats up medical resources. Lots of sick people means fewer medical professionals able to deal with other problems. But, my word, the public makes it worse than it needs to be. We got some H1N1 vaccine at my family practioner recently and you couldn't even get them on the phone because people were stampeding to their office and demanding vaccine like it was the bloody antidote. Legitimately sick people couldn't even get in the door.

 

[Dausuul]

As far as I can tell, around here it's causing fewer deaths than seasonal flu does most years. I don't follow that literature anymore, though, so I can't say with any certainty.

But it remains that this is NOT a huge risk to individuals. It is a "public health risk" only insofar as it eats up medical resources. Lots of sick people means fewer medical professionals able to deal with other problems. But, my word, the public makes it worse than it needs to be. We got some H1N1 vaccine at my family practioner recently and you couldn't even get them on the phone because people were stampeding to their office and demanding vaccine like it was the bloody antidote. Legitimately sick people couldn't even get in the door.

Agreed. Aside from people who would be at risk from any seasonal flu, the main danger of H1N1 is that it's going to end up in some animal along with a good dose of avian flu and start swapping genes - a virus with H1N1's infectiousness among humans, and H5N1's lethality, would be a major threat. But vaccinations in the U.S. aren't going to have much effect on the likelihood of that.