Libris Mortis: Ghostly Grasp. Please Help!

[RolandOfGilead]

Hello everyone!

I am considering taking Undead leadership as my feat and getting either an allip or shadow cohort.

That's how I became interested in ghostly grasp.

Ghostly Grasp (Monstrous)
You handle corporeal objects even while incorporeal.
Prereq: Cha 15, Incorporeal subtype.
Benefit: You can wear, wield, and otherwise use corporeal items as though you were not incorporeal.
Special: Without this feat, an incorporeal creature can only wear or wield items that have the ghost touch special ability.

Seems simple on the face of it, but where do I calculate the equipments effect on the creatures movement? How much can it lift?

Seeking answers to these questions, I called WOTC cust support.
"errm.. I would say you would use the normal strength for a human, 10."
Later, I found the incorporealness entry on page 140+141 and after reading, I came to the conclusion that you would probably be better served using charisma as a substitute for strength. However, on page 141, paragraph 4 and 5, it turned out I had a new question: According to the text, the equipment an incorporeal creature wears turns incorporeal with it. What the heck does that mean? Well, I kind of hoped it meant that you could choose to make the equipment you picked up using ghost grasp incorporeal if you wanted to.
Again, I called customer support.
"Yes, you can get an armor bonus from platemail using this feat to don platemail."
"Ok, can I make my platemail go incorporeal as per page 141 if I decide to walk through a wall?"
"(reads). um no, your platemail becomes incorporeal as soon as you don it. its not corporeal anymore."
"What? Ok but then I cant pick up a sword and hit a corporeal pc with it?"
"Thats right."
"Doesn't that mean that the platemail, now incorporeal, would no longer provide its armor bonus?"
"errm I see what you mean. No, it still provides an armor bonus."
"But Ghostform from Tome & Blood says incorporeal creatures lose their armor bonus."
"Tome & Blood is outdated material. Unless you find something somewhere that says incorporeal creatures get no armor bonus from incorporeal armor I'm inclined to believe I'm right."

ARGH! Ok, I thought the whole point of ghostly grasp is to pick up corporeal items and use them in the CORPOREAL world. Anyone else wanna pipe in? Please? It says "As though you were not incorporeal."
If someone knows the sages email can you send it to me or ask him for me?
thanks,
A confused necromancer!

 

[UltimaGabe]

Glad to see how good of use our money is going to from these customer support people.

Anyway, the way I'd rule it is that anything picked up by the creature is either corporeal or incorporeal, or partially one or the other, whichever is most advantageous to the creature. So, for example, a shadow with this ability could pick up some plate mail, don it, then fly through a wall. He could also pick up a sword (thus making it incorporeal), and attack with it (making it partially corporeal). Its armor would also apply to its AC, as it would be partially corporeal as well, until it desires otherwise (like if it wants to fly through a wall again).

Of course, that's just what I say. Does that make sense?

 

[RolandOfGilead]

Thats kind of what I thought as well. The WOTC staff seems to think that they make a jugdement call, and never back down no matter how much you rub it in WOTC's collective face. hehe.

I think its a decent feat if you allow that - then an equiped shadow cohort can do some nasty things!

 

[Cheiromancer]

How heavy an item could an incorporeal creature lift? Is it treated as having a Strength score of 10?

 

[RolandOfGilead]

Cheiro - The section in libris mortis about incorporeality merely says that an incorporeal creature attempting to use an action ON ANOTHER INCORPOREAL BEING that usually requires a strength check, uses charisma instead.

Then, if you turn to "Ghost trap".. a new spell in said tome, You find that incorporeal creatures can be temporarily made corporeal (Totally screwing them up!). When made corporeal, they assume a strength score equal to their charisma score before any temporary enhancements.

Therefore, the effective strength score of an incorporeal creature, when needed, is its charisma score.