Libris Mortis: Ghostly Grasp...

[RolandOfGilead]

Ok, what strength should an incorporeal creature be assigned when such is necessary as with the ghostly grasp feat?
Based on the rules on incorporealness in Libris mortis, we know that an incorporeal creature attempting to affect another incorporeal creature uses its charisma score in place of is strength score. are we out of line to assume likewise with this feat? Customer support seemed to agree when I mentioned this, but this should be discussed I think. we all know the story of the ghost being extremely strong and banging a door open or something.. yanking something out of someones hand.. etc. Also note that when a incorporeal creature is forced to become corporeal, its strength score IS equal to its charisma score. (libris mortis, page 143). so I think we have some good backing for this.

If all this is correct, should a ghost with a high charisma score wield its dagger and get extra damage just as though it was its strength score? everything is pointing to yes...

 

[RolandOfGilead]

no comment? ok...well then this might draw your attention:

Hist'isalavan
Evolved Shadow Sorceror 6/Fighter 1
Medium undead (Augmented) w/ Evolved template.
CR 11
Hit Dice 10d12 (64 hp)
Initiative: +2
Fly 40ft (Good) 8 squares
Armor Class: 19 (+3 dex, +6 deflection) or Armored 25(+8 Armor,+1 dex, +6 deflection)
Base Attack/Grapple: +5 / --
Attack: Incorporeal touch +8 Melee (1d6 str)
or +1 Greatsword +10 Melee (2d6+8)
Face/Reach: 5'/5'
Special Attacks: Create Spawn, Strength Damage, 1/day Cloudkill CL 10 DC 20)
Special Qualities: Fast healing 3,Darkvision 60'.+2 turn resistance,Incorporeal traits,Undead Traits.
Saves:Fort +5, Ref +6, Will +8
Abilities:
Str: *20* Dex: 17 Con -- Int 10 Wis 10 Cha 20 (+2 evolved, +2 shadow, 15 base, +1 level 4)
Skills: Hide +9 Listen +6 Spot +6 Search +4 Intimidate +12 Spellcraft +9 Knowledge Arcane +9
Feats: Silent spell, Still spell, Ghostly grasp, Necrotic reserve, (b) weapon focus (ray)
Spells: 6/8/6/4
0th (7) Mage hand, Ghost sound, Read Magic, Open/Close, Ray of Frost, Touch of Fatigue, Daze
1st (4) Ray of Enfeeblement, Unseen Servant,Charm Person, Sleep
2nd (2)Darkness, Summon Swarm
3rd (1) Tongues

Permanent Spells:
Tongues

This creature is the cohort of an 12th level lich. It started life as the lich's earthly apprentice, a somewhat innocent lad who would later be cast into the plane of shadow for the lich's amusement. Brought back from the brink, and bound to the lich's will. As an incorporeal creature, it can use ghostly grasp to inhabit and move a suit of armor, and carry a greatsword. Its power is great, its weapon is fear and magic. When it inhabits armor, the armor moves with a fluid grace.. seeming to float above the ground. He retains his own incorporeality even when in the armor, a fact many foes never pick up on. When he is close to defeat, his necrotic reserve kicks in, and he simply drops through the armor into the earth (100% cover) and waits to heal. This creature has been around as long as the lich itself, and through time and the judicious use of wishes, the creature has evolved to its present state.. it can speak common, can cast its spells etc.

Basicly, its much like the witch king, but far less powerful spell wise. When in armor, it uses still spell on any spell it needs to. It uses ray of enfeeblement and touch of fatigue to further weaken enemies it plans to raise as shadowspawn.

 

[John Q. Mayhem]

Cha-for-Str seems like the way to go, 'cause it's easy. However, you've made a wee bit of a mistake-CR doesn't equal ECL. Shadows don't have a level adjustment listed, but they have 3 HD. Add seven levels and you get ECL 10+whatever the shadow's level adjustment is. Evolved is another +1, right? So that's ECL 11+whatever the shadow gets. And given that shadows are incorporeal undead, that's gonna be high. At least +3 when you factor in Str damage, create spawn, and such.


EDIT: Your idea still kicks hindparts, though. What a great way to build the Witch-King!

 

[RolandOfGilead]

You're probably right. it shouldnt be a cohort to any 12th level lich.. it should be its equal. but its CR should be right at 11, right?

 

[RigaMortus]

I'd say Int for Str, Wis for Dex and Cha for Con (should it ever come up)

 

[RolandOfGilead]

Well libris mortis makes clear in most circumstances, cha = strength. As for Intelligence is mental quickness.. i.e. Dexterity .. Wisdom is mental fortitude i.e. Con, and charisma is personal power i.e. strength.

But to each his own
What do you think of the Evolved shadow though? I hope I have his CR correct if not his ECL. a regular shadow 3hd has a 3 CR, a greater shadow at 9hd has an 8 cr, so this guy prolly fits right in at 11 cr. Ray of enfeeblement followed by a couple of touch attacks is nasty.. and ray offers no saving throw