Lichfiend CR

[jontherev]

Howdy,

Is the Lichfiend REALLY a CR +0 adjustment?!? This is an optional Lich template mentioned in Libris Mortis (90% sure...not at home) for outsiders who qualify. I guess I should check for errata...Thanks.

 

[Child of Hypnos]

its not a CR+0 level adjustment, its the same level adjustment as the standard lich template. The listed CR adjustment is in attition to the normal CR adjustment for the template, not insead of it. Hope that helps.

 

[moritheil]

Though to be frank, in 90% of cases the lichfiend is subpar. Any fiend powerful enough to qualify usually has a hefty bonus to constitution, and turning it into an undead just wastes that.

 

[jontherev]

its not a CR+0 level adjustment, its the same level adjustment as the standard lich template. The listed CR adjustment is in attition to the normal CR adjustment for the template, not insead of it. Hope that helps.

Ok, I guess that's what they mean by adjustment? Kinda makes sense. Kinda. They should just put the dang CR and be done with it.

 

[jontherev]

Though to be frank, in 90% of cases the lichfiend is subpar. Any fiend powerful enough to qualify usually has a hefty bonus to constitution, and turning it into an undead just wastes that.

Well, it fits rather well with the storyline. I think my case is in the 10% though. A twice-evolved unholy scion drow lichfiend wiz3/clr3/true nec.10. With the mohrg's tongue grafted on him, as well as the deformity(tongue) feat for the blindsense. Sure, he might be more powerful as a straight lich with lots of cleric levels to get the 9th level spells, but he wouldn't be nearly as cool. Plus, I dumped his lowest stat in Con and used the elite stats, so his stats are crazy. He should be pretty nasty for a 1000 year old lich. Obviously, this is my BBEG, and the party doesn't stand a chance until they are maybe 17th level (maybe). What's cooler, is that he can graft all of his living allies. PCs will first meet him around 6th level...can't wait to see their reaction. Thanks for the replies.

 

[moritheil]

Well, if you were a drow and Con was your dump stat, I suppose Con becoming a nonability is not really an issue.

 

[Scharlata]

Though to be frank, in 90% of cases the lichfiend is subpar. Any fiend powerful enough to qualify usually has a hefty bonus to constitution, and turning it into an undead just wastes that.

Hi!

The lichfiend template is just a tribute to Green Ronin's Freeport Saga...

Kind regards... from Jalie... the one with the Squarefoot

Hell in Freeport

 

[frankthedm]

Though to be frank, in 90% of cases the lichfiend is subpar. Any fiend powerful enough to qualify usually has a hefty bonus to constitution, and turning it into an undead just wastes that.

That is what Desecrate is for!

Desecrate
Evocation [Evil]
Level: Clr 2, Evil 2 ...

...An undead creature created within or summoned into such an area gains +1 hit points per HD...

If the desecrated area contains an altar, shrine, or other permanent fixture dedicated to your deity or aligned higher power, the modifiers given above are doubled... +2 hit points per HD for undead in the area).

Given that a an outsider has a d8 HD and thus gets about 2 HP per die more from a d12, it is still sort of like having an 18 Con once the Dececrate HP kick in. Less wretched than one would think. Improved toughness should be on the 'feats to take' list for the lich fiend none the less.

 

[jontherev]

That is what Desecrate is for!

Desecrate
Evocation [Evil]
Level: Clr 2, Evil 2 ...

...An undead creature created within or summoned into such an area gains +1 hit points per HD...

If the desecrated area contains an altar, shrine, or other permanent fixture dedicated to your deity or aligned higher power, the modifiers given above are doubled... +2 hit points per HD for undead in the area).

Given that a an outsider has a d8 HD and thus gets about 2 HP per die more from a d12, it is still sort of like having an 18 Con once the Dececrate HP kick in. Less wretched than one would think. Improved toughness should be on the 'feats to take' list for the lich fiend none the less.

Hey thanks for the tip! I'm a new DM, so I'm not used to devious spells like that. So, this would also work when a Lich creates itself, with a permanency spell? Granted, it would only work for the area of effect, and only until someone dispelled it for the first time...but it should work I would think.

 

[moritheil]

I can't believe I didn't make that connection.

I salute you, sir!