Life-Keeping & Revivify -- Changing the Face Returning From the Dead

[mercucio]

Hi All.

Changing the way returning from the dead works in my campaign and want to solict ideas, suggestions, and even criticisms (so long as they are constructive).

The basic premise of these changes is that it is much easier to restore to life a dead creature whose soul is still on the same plane than it is to recall a soul from the afterlife.

Secondly, I find the idea that you can just kind of whistle up the dead (even if they are willing) from the afterlife with a 5th level spell creates a somewhat cavalier attitude toward dying. I'm hoping these changes will discourage that attitude.

CHANGES
1. A deceased creature's soul typically lingers on the mortal plane for at least day.
2. Raise dead becomes a 7th level cleric spell, loses the material component and now costs 1000xp.
3. Resurrection becomes a 9th level cleric spell, loses the material component, and costs 2000xp.
4. True resurrection is removed from the cleric list entirely, and now becomes an option of the miracle spell.
5. The following spells, life-keeping and revivify, are added.

LIFEKEEPING
Necromancy
Level: Brd 3, Clr 2, Drd 3, Pal 4, Rgr 4, Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: 1 minute
Range: Touch
Target: Corpse touched
Duration: 1 hour/caster level
Saving Throw: No
Spell Resistance: No

By invoking this spell a caster may keep a recently departed soul from passing on to the afterlife. If cast within 24 hours of death the subject's soul remains tethered to it’s body. If the body is healed of enough damage to bring it above -10 hp flesh and soul can be reunited through the use of a revivify spell, restoring the subject to life. If the subject of this spell was slain by death magic, or there is grevious damage to the corpse (multiple limbs or vital organs destroyed) this spell fails.

Note: This spell does not prevent decay. A separate spell (gentle repose) must be used to prevent a corpse from decaying. Failure to do so can result in permanent ability drain as determined by the Dungeon Master.


REVIVIFY
Necromancy
Level: Brd 6, Clr 5, Drd 6, Sor/Wiz 7
Components: V, S, XP
Casting Time: 1 hour
Range: Touch
Area: Dead creature touched
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None; see text
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

You restore life to recently deceased creature. You can revivify a creature that has been dead for no longer than 24 hours. Time spent under the effects of a life-keeping spell does not count against this limit. In addition, the subject’s soul must be free and willing to return. If the subject’s soul is not willing to return, the spell does not work; therefore, a subject that wants to return receives no saving throw.

Coming back from the dead is an ordeal. The subject of the spell loses one level (or 1 Hit Die) when it is raised, just as if it had lost a level or a Hit Die to an energy-draining creature. If the subject is 1st level, it loses 1 points of Constitution instead (if this would reduce its Con to 0 or less, it can’t be raised). This level/HD loss or Constitution loss cannot be repaired by any means. A character who died with spells prepared loses all prepared spells. A spellcasting creature that doesn’t prepare spells (such as a sorcerer) loses all unused spell slot as if it had been used to cast a spell.

A revivified creature has a number of hit points equal to its current Hit Dice. Any ability scores damaged to 0 are raised to 1. Normal poison and normal disease are cured in the process of revivifying the subject, but magical diseases and curses are not undone. While the spell closes mortal wounds and repairs lethal damage of most kinds, the body of the creature to be raised must be whole. Otherwise, missing parts are still missing when the creature is brought back to life. None of the dead creature’s equipment or possessions are affected in any way by this spell.

A creature who has been turned into an undead creature or killed by a death effect can’t be raised by this spell. Constructs, elementals, outsiders, and undead creatures can’t be raised. The spell cannot bring back a creature that has died of old age.

XP Cost: 500xp.

 

[Tewligan]

Hey, I like what you've got there. Makes the threat of character death a little more serious, but still surmountable. The only change I would maybe recommend on first impression is removing Revivify from the wiz/sor list, and maybe the bard list as well - although, if you have no problem ignoring the D&D sacred cow of "Only divine magic can bring back the dead", then I'd say maybe make it as high as an 8th-level spell for arcane casters. I like the changes you've made to Raise Dead and Resurrection, also. Nice work!

 

[Ferret]

Looks very good! I like this alot. The only thing I can mention is that life keeping (I like the name Tethersoul ) has no save? So if a soul wanted to pass onto the after life it couldn't? Also do you give other healing/ raising spells to the wizards and sorcers in your game?

 

[VirgilCaine]

Secondly, I find the idea that you can just kind of whistle up the dead (even if they are willing) from the afterlife with a 5th level spell creates a somewhat cavalier attitude toward dying. I'm hoping these changes will discourage that attitude.

This only encourages a cavalier attitude if you don't know how few 9th level clerics there are in your campaign world and how friendly they are to bringing back your specific party members back from the dead--irregardless of the fact that the clerics are being compensated fopr the 5,000 GP in DIAMOND DUST that is expended in the Raise Dead spell.

However, your idea and solution are not without merit

 

[danielinthewolvesden]

In the Mini-Handbook, there is already a Revivify. Basicly, if you get to a dead guy within one round the spell puts him back at -1 with no penalties. This is a bit like the old "Deaths Door" spell from 2nd Ed. I used it last nite and saved a memebr of my party. Pretty cool.

Your rules bascily mean that the players will start new PC's rather than raise old one. This cuts into continueity. Do you want that? :\

 

[mercucio]

First off, thank you all for your comments!

TEWLIGAN
1. Thanks! Glad you like it. Definitely have no problem ignoring the D&D sacred cow of "Only divine magic can bring back the dead". In this respect I a definitely more of an advocate of Unearthed Arcana and Revised Elements of Magic approach of to spell lists.

2. For arcane casters being able to cast the spell, as the rules stand now, a wizard can cast limited wish (7th level spell) to duplicate raise dead (5th level divine spell) for a measly 150 xp. I wanted to preserve this somewhat...not to mention casting revivify now costs more than limited wish. Also I am a big fan of the Vlad Taltos books by Steven Brust, where in skilled sorcerors are capable of raising the recently (3 days) slain.

FERRET
1. Oops, I didn't even think about a save. You've got a point--as written a foe could kill you, cast life-keeping (or tether soul if you prefer =) to prevent you from travelling to the afterlife--thus making it impossible to reincarnate or raise you. Better make it "Will negates".

2. I do, to a limited degree. There is one commonly found spell:
MELTHOR’S SHARING
Necromancy
Level: Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 round
Range: Touch
Target: one creature
Duration: Instantaneous

This spell allows the caster to heal a subject’s wounds or restore their strength at the expense of their own. For every 1 hp sacrificed by the caster he may heal the subject of 2 hp of damage.

Alternately, the caster can lend Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution, healing the subject of 2 point of temporary ability damage point per each one the caster sacrifices. The caster regains sacrificed ability and hit points at the normal rate.

And I also have a feat that allows a sor/wiz to learn his Int bonus (minimum one) spells from another class list (but not domain lists). Each spell is then treated as an arcane spell of one level higher. This could be used to learn various cure spells. There is also a sorceror-healer prestige class that I won't get into here.

VIRGILCAINE
This only encourages a cavalier attitude if you don't know how few 9th level clerics there are in your campaign world and how friendly they are to bringing back your specific party members back from the dead--irregardless of the fact that the clerics are being compensated fopr the 5,000 GP in DIAMOND DUST that is expended in the Raise Dead spell.

5000gp in diamond dust is only expensive at low levels--not to mention 5000gp of diamond dust is easier to acquire than a whole diamond worth 5000gp. As for friendly 9th level clerics, let us not forget the friendly 9th level cleric in the party =).

However, your idea and solution are not without merit
Thanks!

DANIELINTHEWOLVESDEN
1. Don't own Mini's HB, however, there is a druid spell, last breath if IIRC, that does the same thing. However, it really didn't fit what I wanted to do.

Your rules bascily mean that the players will start new PC's rather than raise old one. This cuts into continueity. Do you want that?

I don't see it that way at all. To me it basically means they will be forced to weigh risks and come up with better plans for engaging the enemy, i.e. doing more than simple frontal assaults. Continuity is nice, don't get me wrong, but laughing in the face of death because you know you can get a raise is wrong. The rules will encourage the players to be careful with their characters as death is now a serious issue.

 

[The Black Kestrel]

Bump!

 

[Whitemage Bishieboy]

i agree with the hard to bring back the dead if the soul has departed,but i use a 15minute timer.

i dislike exp components on raises personally it costs the deader exp anyways and what if you havent had any sessions since the last level up,no one can be brought back?

raise dead in my caimpaign costs nothing,not even a level for the sod(they get 2 negative levels and 2ability damege to all there stats though )of course it only has a 15minute timer,otherwise say HELLO to reincarnate and wish.

 

[scholz]

You might want to look at Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed's system.
I don't have it handy, but it is very similar in that you can't do it easily.

Personally I think the regularity of death and the kind of game you play should be factored in.

Are your games (A) episodic campaigns, (B) unrelated 'situation' adventures, (C) tournament style-dungeon dives.

In (C) - having people die is no big deal, they die, and make new characters the next time you play. Some small penality (fewer magic items, lower level) is a fine penalty for playing incautiously.

In (B) or (A) I think the situation differs. If dying is permanent (usually) then people may be overly cautious (B) and deeply depressed (A) when their character dies from a bad roll. I would reduce the CRs of all encounters to make accidental death less common, and maybe drop critical hits. Or add Hero points or something like that to avoid instant/accidental deaths.

I think losing a character, especially at high level, if you've worked you way up, can be a real pain. It is frustrating and annoying as a player. As a DM I get annoyed when subsequent characters tend to be resistant to whatever killed the previous (if it was getting hit too often, they make a high AC character next, if they fail a save they make a character with higher saves), if helping another character got one killed, they next character might not help the others.

Having had a character die twice last game, I do not relish having to lose two levels, while everyone else will probably go up a level. Tha is pretty punitive.

So... what kind of fixes...
I think if you are running a type A game, deaths should be rare and heroic (at least at high level). But when a character dies it should be a big deal. One way to handle this would be to make death less common.

Possibilities...
Different consequences for being reduced to negative hitpoints..
(a) A la Castle Falkenstein make running out of hps 'finishing blows' so you lose the fight, but to actually kill someone someone needs to make the decision to kill you.
Ex. A fireball does 10d6 to Fred who has 25 hp, he fails his save take 36hps and (in RAW he is dead) is Unconcscious and Helpless. The mage can just walk up and finish him off, but if left alone he will eventually wake up. Of course, the mage could choose instead to put him in a death trap or hold him hostage.
(b) extend the disable and dying ranges... Onte Cook's Arcana Unearthed does this, you get yor con bonus appended to the range of being staggered/disabled. A Con 14 person reduced to -1 hp is disabled, not dying. And you get your Con in negative hitpoint before you die. I've heard tell of games where you add your level to one or both of those numbers. This would definitely prolong the lives of PCs.
(c) add in injury rules of some kind. Maybe whenever a character is put into negative hitpoints, he or she must make a fortitue save or suffer some more permanent injury (broken arm, deafness etc..) This would complicate the game considerably, but it might keep peoplle from taking combat too lightly.
(d) A la, Sean K Reynelds home rule, have normal death/dying rules, but when you are raised from the dead, you add a negative level which disappears when you next level up. I think that is punitive enough to discourage dying, but it doesn't permanently hurt you.

 

[RangerWickett]

With my players I have an implicit agreement that I won't kill them at moments that are dissatisfying. It's kinda like a season of Angel or Buffy. Characters might die in the big showdown at the end of the season, but mid-season, people aren't going to die unless there's a highly dramatic lead-up. NPCs can die whenever it's dramatically appropriate, but for PCs, if they would die, I'll instead leave them for dead, and afflict them somehow.

I've only killed off one or two characters when it wasn't dramatic. Both PCs really were just being disruptive, so when the first got involved in a prison break with the aid of a summoned demon, he was killed. And when the second stole a plot-important magic item from one of the PCs, then teleported to give it to the main villain, I judged whether it was worth it to turn the PC into a villain, and decided instead to kill him off.

If someone dies, I let cure spells bring them back if used within a round. Raise Dead only works as a fantasy defribulator, functioning for 1 minute per level after death, and only if the body's intact. Resurrection can work if the person's been dead up to a day. For any longer than that, you've got to do hard work and retrieve the soul.