Limiting Greater Magical Weapon

[Sullaf]

This is mainly inspired by this topic, but with a different focus. We have a party around 10th level with a psion, who can use the power Greater Magical Weapon (well the psion version, but this is just for the example) and has access to the Extend meta magic feat.

Now we also have an archer. And here it becomes scary. Every time we go and rest, the psion burns all his powerpoints on extended Greater Magical weapon, twice, once on the archer's bow, once on his arrows, making it a VERY scary archer AND having his powerpoints fully recovered the next morning. He can use the same trick with animal affinity, boosting all his scores. (which is less scary as this could be done by minor magical items as well)

Our DM has changed the rules by changing the duration to 10 min/level (same as the other thread) and this seems to work fine.

However in the near future, our archer could make his +1 magical bow better with all kinds of enchantments. (shocking, frost, whatever), making this a deadly combination as he only needs a +1. The other "plusses" to overcome damage reduction will be provided by the 'Greater Magical Weapon', making it a +5 weapon with just 1 ability...

I was just wondering what 'the hive' views are on this...

 

[comrade raoul]

I'd leave the duration as it is: I think the long-lasting version of greater magic weapon is balanced if it's used in the way it's meant to be. I'd rather clean up the two well-known abuses (large enhancement bonuses on weapons with lots of special qualities, and free magical ammunition) and retain the normal version of the spell for normal play. My favorite pair of fixes for this is:

• Greater magic weapon does not affect multiple arrows, bolts, or other forms of ammunition. Rather, the spell affects only a single weapon (or piece of ammunition) touched, regardless of whether that object is a sword, arrow, or bow.
• The total equivalent enhancement bonus of an weapon affected by greater magic weapon cannot exceed +1 per three caster levels; the enhancement bonus of weapons affected by that spell are increased to this amount. For example, if a 15th level cleric casts greater magic weapon on a +1 flaming burst greatsword (with a total equivalent bonus of +3), the weapon is improved to a +3 flaming burst greatsword for a total enhancement bonus equivalent of +5. If the same cleric instead cast the spell on a +1 keen flaming bastard sword of speed (with a total equivalent enhancement bonus of +7), the weapon is unaffected, as its total equivalent enhancement bonus is already equal to or greater than +5.

Thoughts?

 

[seasong]

I like the second part of that a lot. Hm...

My players won't, so much

 

[Sullaf]

Well it does show that you too see the danger the spell posses. Used effectively this spell could severly damage gameplay. You too have provided with 'a fix' and if I may add, it might be a more balanced one than my DM is using. I especially like the "cannot exceed +1 per three caster levels", making it harder to abuse.

I just began a campaign of my own, and like all DM should do, I pondered what to do with possible 'balance breakers' (e.g. harm) and having seen what 'Greater Magical Weapon' can do, I quickly added it to the list.

Are there also people who are just fine with the rules as is? Because I would like to hear both sides

 

[Ravellion]

Read my houserules next time you post them Sullaf

The problem with the PSion really is that he gets a +3 bonus at level 6 for the greater metaphysical weapon power for 5pp (4 with a Torque of Psionic might), and the way Psions work, that just becomes cheaper and cheaper relatively as you level up.

Anyway, cut and pasted from my site, and from the email I sent Sullaf about three months ago

Greater Metaphysical Weapon
As in the Psionics Handbook, but with the following changes/additions:

Duration: 10 minutes/level (D)
add to the end of the power's text: Any +X equivalent ability already on the target weapon or ammunition (such as charged or impact) reduces the amount with which this power bestows an enhancement bonus by X.

 

[Sullaf]

[shame mode]
Mighty DM has mighty good Houserules... but must READ them first...
[/shame mode]

Seriously I did not read the last line. Oh well that's about the same solution as raoul had, which is imho, a good enough 'fix'.

 

[Ravellion]

The duration cut is more for flavour purposes. I like it when a permanent +3 keen weapon is considered to be powerful by players (and the characters). This opposed to the situation where it is percieved as something the wizard can easily cough up for the entire day, every day, multiple times if needed.

Well, mostly flavour .

Rav

 

[Destil]

Note that greater metaphysical weapon does not scale with level. It's +3. End of story... So you're arguement of having a +5 shocking firy icy keen et cetera bow is only partly correct (it's only +3).

However, I think comrade raoul's second fix is a fine house rule... one I've been considering for a while myself. The first one I would only use if you changed it so you made batches of 500 arrows, instead of 50, as magical weapons...

 

[Plane Sailing]

I was just wondering what 'the hive' views are on this...

My short answer is to make GMW 10min/level, to bring it into line with Keen Edge (the other 3rd level weapon buff) and Magic Weapon.

A more interesting idea (which falls into the land of "complete re-write) is to have a magic weapon spell at every odd spell level, 1st-9th. These spells would make a weapon from +1 up to +5 in power.

Another interesting possibility would be to have 9 levels of magic weapon spells, and each level can provide enhancement bonus (up to half the spell level, rounded up) and the remainder to provide whatever additional powers the caster wants (at appropriate costs).

Thus a 3rd level magic weapon could be used to create a +2 flaming weapon. an 8th level magic weapon could be used to create a +4 speed weapon, or a +4 dancing weapon etc.

I'm sticking with the short answer for the moment and waiting to see whether 3.5e has tackled this issue.

Cheers

 

[comrade raoul]

So my first change isn't nearly as popular as the second one; perhaps it can use a bit of explanation.

The "only one piece of ammunition" rule was motivated by all of those threads about archers a while back. I tended to agree with people that archers were way too powerful -- a good archer could outdamage a melee character pretty consistently (assuming the melee character wasn't a twinked frenzied berserker or the like), and could do that damage from a considerable range, and make a full attack every round, and so forth.

A bit of math revealed two things. First, much of an archer's impressive damage output had to do with the fact that they benefited from two enhancement bonuses (the bow and arrows), rather than just one (a melee weapon). It also revealed that magical arrows were surprisingly expensive -- fifty +5 arrows cost 50,000 gp and change, for about 1k per arrow.

At that point, things made sense -- 3e was balanced under the assumption archers may be powerful, but they'd have to pay through the nose for it (hence the appeal the arcane archer, but that's a digression). A high-level archer using rapid shot on a full attack with +5 arrows spends 5k per round -- a major balancing factor. If a melee character got to spend 5k per round on powerful expendable magical items, he'd be pretty sick, too.

And hence the problem with greater magic weapon affecting ammunition -- it allowed archers to save incredible amounts of money and made them disproportionately powerful. Since arrows are consumed upon being fired, if you're going to fire 50 +5 arrows in a day of adventuring (which you will, in ten to fifteen rounds of combat), a set of masterwork arrows affected by greater magic weapon is for practically all intents and purposes just as good as that 50k quiver of +5 arrows -- that is, one third-level spell in effect creates a 50,000 gold piece magical item. Wish can't do that!

Hence the house rule. Note that I don't think this unfairly nerfs archers, or makes greater magic weapon any less useful to them: they can still benefit from it cast on their bow in the same way a melee character can benefit from it cast on his weapon. And that seems fair to me.