Limiting Magic

[Obergnom]

I'm currently thinking about a simple way of limiting magic so my game would not leave the realm of the manageable.

Remove access to highest level spells from casters.

For example: I could say casters will only get 5th level spells in my campaign. They would still have access to higher level spell slots, but they may only use those for metamagic. (Like the Epic Level Slots you can get after level 20)

What would be a good spell level to set as maximum if I did use such a rule? I do not want casters to be weaker than the other classes, I want them more manageable than they are now.

My biggest concern would be, that this is a huge drawback for those kinds of magic that do not benefit from metamagic that much. (Like Summoning)

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

Making a change that big requires a lot of work to balance properly. Monsters are built with the expectation that characters will have access to certain spells at certain levels. So the wholesale removal of spells above level X can require rebalancing every encounter to account for the difference in power. Beyond that cutting off spells entirely will leave full casters behind the power curve at the top end once they've advanced several levels without getting any new spells. This can be be aleviated some by uncapping the damage of lower level spells but it won't entirely solve the problem.

The question is what exactly are you trying to create with your changes? Because on a purely damage dealing level well-built fighters or barbarians can often exceed magic-users in straight-up HP depletion. I would recommend figuring out which spells or types of spells are causing you the trouble and pulling them out specifically as this requires less work. It's much easier to remove say "teleport" than to cap advancement at the level below. Or pull out individual save-or-die spells or troublesome divinations than reworking the overall balance to accomodate restricted spell levels.

Or is the problem simply that the power level and tone of the game moves outside your preferred feel at certain levels. If so you can take a look at the E6 variant created here on these boards that caps advancement much earlier and may have a tone more suited to your games.

 

[Obergnom]

As I said, it is about management. I often see my players struggling with the number of spells and options available. I thought it might be a good idea to remove those, to help them out. I know that many high level encounters expect certain abilities. The problem is, my players do not know that.
It would be better for us if invisibility stayed the most complex way of sneaking up to people. Adding ethereal and teleport just makes the situation mor complicated. Especially teleportation, of course.
Save or die spells are allready in a kind of "Cold War Remis" in our group. The players do not use them, the DM does not to. (Same for Enervation, for example)

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

It sounds like your groups might want to look at the E6 variant that caps advancement and reduces the options curve as well. Maybe it'd help, maybe not.

Overall if you are going to cap spell level advancement I would keep the existing higher level spell slots for metamagic. Remove the damage cap from spells in order to keep up the HP escalation of enemies since access to higher level spells with greater caps is gone. Give more metamagic bonus feats to encourage it being taken and used, it'll become very important the more levels above the cap players get.

 

[calebw]

in one of my campaigns, we limited the number of levels magic users could take. it was a primarily melee universe and magic was outlawed, blah blah. limiting the number of levels (depending on how far you want them to go in arcane of divine power) really helps from my experience.

 

[Nifft]

One popular variant I've seen a lot of folks use (though never used myself) is to limit spellcasters to only taking half their levels in any one spellcasting class. Thus, you could play a Sorcerer 10 / Paladin 10, or a Wizard 10 / Rogue 10, or a Cleric 10 / Barbarian 10.

Dunno if a Wizard 10 / Cleric 10 would be allowed.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Arkhandus]

I'd guess 6th-level spells to be a decent stopping point for spell level advancement. Maybe 5th-level, but 6th-level spells are where you get Greater Dispelling, Stone to Flesh (IIRC), etc. 5th-level's alright too, but there may be some monsters or whatnot that use special attacks or defenses you're expected to use Greater Dispelling, Stone to Flesh, or similar stuff against.

 

[White Whale]

I'd guess 6th-level spells to be a decent stopping point for spell level advancement. Maybe 5th-level, but 6th-level spells are where you get Greater Dispelling, Stone to Flesh (IIRC), etc. 5th-level's alright too, but there may be some monsters or whatnot that use special attacks or defenses you're expected to use Greater Dispelling, Stone to Flesh, or similar stuff against.

Then don't use those monsters. Simple as that!

 

[crueldespot]

It sounds like your groups might want to look at the E6 variant that caps advancement and reduces the options curve as well. Maybe it'd help, maybe not.

That sounds interesting. Do you have a link?

 

[Ry]

Here you go:

E6