Limits to gaining stats from mericle wish and tomes?

[washout]

I would think if I wished for a stat increase I would get +1 and then if I wished again I'd get another stacking +1 etc.. But if I read a +1 tome and then read another one later will that one stack, or will the inherent bonus then only be overwritten by a better bonus tome? Also is the limit to stats from wishes or whatnot limited to +5?

Edit: I think I answered my own question:

Grant a creature a +1 inherent bonus to an ability score. Two to five wish spells cast in immediate succession can grant a creature a +2 to +5 inherent bonus to an ability score (two wishes for a +2 inherent bonus, three for a +3 inherent bonus, and so on). Inherent bonuses are instantaneous, so they cannot be dispelled. Note: An inherent bonus may not exceed +5 for a single ability score, and inherent bonuses to a particular ability score do not stack, so only the best one applies.

Or maybe not, clear as mud, cast in succession they stack but not if they are not cast in succession? What a hokey ruling.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Yeah, it's awkward. You did basically answer it. Spells must be cast in immediate succession, Tomes overlap with the bonus from any previous tome (as would a new set of wish castings) if the new one is a higher bonus.

So basically, your only real choice is to save up and jump to a +4 or +5 bonus in one go. Or if you really need a boost earlier than near epic, a +2 tome and then override it later.

I think it was the game's way of saying "we don't want people getting this before ~level 18+, but we'll make it available earlier for exhorbitant cost long-term."

 

[washout]

Quite retarded, given that in a typical 4d6 spread your going to be lucky to get anything over a 14. I didn't want point buy in my game so made the players roll. It's proved interesting so far but with the ruling this way there is a good chance that they are going to hit 6th or 7th level spells and be unable to cast them. I'm just going to rule that tomes stack, otherwise they are going to get screwed.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Quite retarded, given that in a typical 4d6 spread your going to be lucky to get anything over a 14. I didn't want point buy in my game so made the players roll. It's proved interesting so far but with the ruling this way there is a good chance that they are going to hit 6th or 7th level spells and be unable to cast them. I'm just going to rule that tomes stack, otherwise they are going to get screwed.

As a side note, I find it very hard to play a primary caster without at least a 16 to start in the main stat. That's not to say you need high stats (the rest can be garbage, really ), just that you need the ONE high stat.

In your players' cases...they started at 14? By the time they get to levels 11-14 (6-7th level spells), they should have put at least two level up points into the casting stat and have a +4 bonus to it from headband of intellect or whatever. That's a 20, enough to cast any spell level, just not do it with very good save DCs or any high level bonus spells.

 

[Corsair]

Planar binding + Noble Djinni = +3 inherent bonuses.

 

[Creeping Death]

Planar binding + Noble Djinni = +3 inherent bonuses.

who what where now?

 

[Runestar]

Basically a way of capturing a noble djinn and forcing it to use its 3 wishes on you. Another way is to play an ur-priest, use steal-SLA to nab wish as a SLA, and use it. Shapechanging into a zodar also nets you a use of wish as a SU ability (though the spell is rather vague on how quickly it recharges).

So your best bet for a wizard is to scribe 3 scrolls of wish, and cast the remaining 2 from your spell slots (assuming your int is high enough to grant a bonus 9th lv slot at lv17, you can achieve this with starting int16, +4 lv boosts, headband+6 and spellcasting prodigy feat). This nabs you a +5 inherent int bonus.

Remember that you can opt to "hoard" xp and use it to craft items instead of levelling up, so the trick is to spend the xp on scribing those scrolls when you would reach lv18 (thus staying at lv17). Because of the way xp is allocated in 3.5, you get more xp if you are lower lv than the rest of your party, so don't worry too much about lagging behind - you will eventually catch up.

 

[KerlanRayne]

By RAW the tomes don't stack, but I think they should. They won't let the +2 Enhancement items stack because three +2 items cost a third of what a +6 item would. If you look at the tomes however, you will see that five +1 items costs the same as one +5 item.

 

[washout]

Planar binding + Noble Djinni = +3 inherent bonuses.

Problem is if you are good aligned you woulden't do what basically equates to slavery, and my guys int is low enough that he won't be able to do this in time anyway.

I started with a random 4d6 stat allocation and only switch two stats. I wanted the characters to have some real flaws and not be total superheroes. Basically give some choice but don't end up with dump stats and that nonsense. So I had a con 9 and int 14 so I had to put my level 4 stat into con so I'd quit dying and then I'm putting all the rest into int when I can. But he's set up to not be getting level 6 and 7 spells unless I can find some wishes. I think the best bet is definatly just to buy scrolls of wish instead of the manuals. I don't see any need for tomes. Why not just get rings of wishing or scrolls of wishing instead.

Luckily the party found a headband of intellect +2 last session though so I'll be covered for the remainder of RHOD and then when that is finished I can start hunting down a way to get some wishes. I think you can make scrolls in a day too rather than having to wait months if you wanted to make the tomes. edit: Drat, it still takes months to scribe the scrolls. But since your so close to epic anyway you probably can find an epic caster that can make them for you.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Seriously, a primary caster's most important item should always be [casting stat] +x items. By the time they can cast 6-7th level spells, they SHOULD have a +4 item for their stat, unless they purposely decided to buy up other things instead. Really, by level 15 they should have a +6 item for the casting stat, IME. When I play a caster, I make sure to nab a +2 item by ~level 6. As far as spending the level 4 point on con, that's fine. My estimation assumed using two out of the 3 level bonuses from 1-12 on the casting stat. Said player still can do that.

By RAW the tomes don't stack, but I think they should. They won't let the +2 Enhancement items stack because three +2 items cost a third of what a +6 item would. If you look at the tomes however, you will see that five +1 items costs the same as one +5 item.

Interesting, never noticed that.

Yet another piece of evidence that the rule exists just to make it prohibitively expensive to buy up tomes at an early level.