Line of effect question

[Kyramus]

If you are the caster of an Illusionary Wall and waiting on the otherside for the pc's to enter the room.

Does the Illusionary Wall block the line of effect when you cast THROUGH the illusion wall? Spell being cast through are the following possibilities: Enervation, Fireball, Slow, cold orb, and shatter.

I know that line of effect acts like line of sight, but a solid barrier stops line of sight. The illusionary wall would block line of sight unless they disbelieve it.

 

[Pax]

The wall is illusory,a nd so doe snot block LoE. It does block LoS, however, which may be a factor for Targetted spells.

 

[UltimaGabe]

Now, hang on- are they the ones casting spells through the wall, or is it the Illusionist that created the wall? If the PCs were to cast Melf's Acid Arrow at the wall, for example, the PC would then be forced to make a Will save. If they succeeded, the arrow would pass through the wall, and that PC would then be able to see through it, since he interacted with the wall and made a Will save to disbelieve it. If he failed, the Melf's Acid Arrow would appear to act as if it had just hit a wall.

If it's the caster, however, he'd be able to cast spells normally through the wall as if it weren't there, since he created the wall and therefore wouldn't need to disbelieve it.

At least, assuming I have correct understanding of the Illusory Wall spell.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Now, hang on- are they the ones casting spells through the wall, or is it the Illusionist that created the wall? If the PCs were to cast Melf's Acid Arrow at the wall, for example, the PC would then be forced to make a Will save. If they succeeded, the arrow would pass through the wall, and that PC would then be able to see through it, since he interacted with the wall and made a Will save to disbelieve it. If he failed, the Melf's Acid Arrow would appear to act as if it had just hit a wall.

The Wall is a figment, not a shadow; it has no physical reality. There's nothing to actually get in the way of the Arrow.

But as Pax noted, you can't use a spell with a Target entry unless you can "see or touch" the target.

Of the spells mentioned - Enervation, Fireball, Cold Orb, and Shatter (area version) could all be cast through the Wall, but for the Ranged Touch Attacks with Enervation and Cold Orb, the opponent would benefit from total concealment unless the caster could see through the wall. (And obviously he'd have to guess where to place his Fireball and Shatter.)

Slow and Shatter (targeted version) could not be used unless the caster can see through the wall.

Note that the original caster of the Wall can see through it:

"Saving Throws and Illusions (Disbelief): Creatures encountering an illusion usually do not receive saving throws to recognize it as illusory until they study it carefully or interact with it in some fashion.

A successful saving throw against an illusion reveals it to be false, but a figment or phantasm remains as a translucent outline.

A failed saving throw indicates that a character fails to notice something is amiss. A character faced with proof that an illusion isn’t real needs no saving throw. If any viewer successfully disbelieves an illusion and communicates this fact to others, each such viewer gains a saving throw with a +4 bonus."

Illusory Wall has a Will Disbelief saving throw.

He definitely has proof it isn't real - he cast the thing. It remains as a translucent outline - which means he can see through it.

-Hyp.

 

[Kyramus]

Ok so the original caster of the illusion wall CAN cast any of the spells that I listed without penalty right?

Just making sure since I have a nasty trap about to be set up and I need to clarify certain situations so that I can see if the trap can be done or not.

It involves Energy Transformation Field. hehehe

 

[0-hr]

And as soon as the PCs see the fireball or cold orbs come through what appears to be a solid wall, they have undeniable proof that the wall is fake (at which point it becomes subjectively transparent to them as well).

The illusionist should cast the "untraceable" spells first because once he throws one that leaves a trail, the gig is up.

 

[Kyramus]

hehehe he's buffing behind the illusionary wall, when he's ready then he starts. Which includes summoned monsters. hehehe

 

[Hypersmurf]

And as soon as the PCs see the fireball or cold orbs come through what appears to be a solid wall, they have undeniable proof that the wall is fake (at which point it becomes subjectively transparent to them as well).

Hmm? Why couldn't the cold orbs be issuing from a previously unnoticed glyph scribed on the surface of a physical wall?

-Hyp.

 

[0-hr]

Hmm? Why couldn't the cold orbs be issuing from a previously unnoticed glyph scribed on the surface of a physical wall?

-Hyp.

Wouldn't it take continuing concentration in order to make "previously unnoticed glyphs" appear - concentration that would be broken by casting the Cold Orbs?

If the illusionist had fashioned his illusion to provide an excuse for spells coming out of the wall, then I certainly would allow it to continue fooling the PCs (though I think being attacked by the wall would have to count as interaction and thus allow a Will save).

 

[Hypersmurf]

Wouldn't it take continuing concentration in order to make "previously unnoticed glyphs" appear - concentration that would be broken by casting the Cold Orbs?

I'm not saying the illusionist makes glyphs appear. I'm saying that there might have been glyphs you didn't notice, that disappeared when they were discharged, which explains cold orbs coming out of the wall. So cold orbs coming out of the wall isn't incontrovertible proof of an illusion.

-Hyp.