Living Star Wars Saga edition?

[Insight]

In terms of time period (and I think the game should stick to an established Star Wars background), I think it should come down to one of the three most popular eras:

1. Rebellion Era (aka "Original Trilogy")
2. Rise of the Empire/Fall of the Republic Era (aka "New Trilogy")
3. Knights of the Old Republic

We'd have the best chance attracting players and GMs with one of the above because they'd already be familiar with what's expected.

Rebellion Era -
Pros: Everyone is familiar with this era, lots of story to mine for adventure ideas, black and white conflict between Rebellion and Empire
Cons: Jedi very restricted (one could argue there shouldn't be *any* Jedi), problems with canon/continuity, short time period

Rise of the Empire/Fall of the Republic Era -
Pros: Most people are familiar with this era (but may not like the movies - not sure that this matters), probably the most material to mine for adventure ideas, good deal of "work space", Jedi plentiful (but doomed), lots of factions to use for enemies (the guilds, bounty hunters, the Sith, the resistance, etc)
Cons: Still some problems with canon/continuity (but less so because many of the major characters die off or become irrelevant)

Knights of the Old Republic Era -
Pros: Jedi and Sith are plentiful, large "work space", no real canon/continuity problems
Cons: Less familiarity with this era (as compared to the other options listed above), less real "story" to work with, may be too large (we might need to focus on a specific time or plot)

 

[Insight]

I think that the main issue is where the Sith class would fall. People will more than likely want to play a Sith. It would be kinda bad for the party to have Sith and Jedi in the same area lol.

The good news about this is that you don't really need to worry about it until after 6th level or so. All force users start as Jedi according to SWSE. Obviously, force adepts and characters trained strictly as Sith use that class as a game mechanic but would call themselves something else "in character".

SWSE isn't really set up to have alternate force users (as a base class), though if we really wanted to offer an alternative to the Jedi base class, we could create something.

 

[fireinthedust]

I'm all for creating a new version of Star Wars, but it would have to be just that: Star Wars. Not Star Drive or Rifts Saga Edition (as fun as that might be... and doable), but specifically Star Wars.
The problem with a particular era is also that so much changes every series. If the Vong invasion were over (hopefully) we'd have to decide if Coruscant was back to being a giant city or if we'd keep it covered in plant matter/jungle the way I hear they did it in the books.


What if we were to make up our own war? We pick factions that we'd want to keep from any of the eras. Then we say "okay, the badguys are invading" and play an actual War in the setting?

Sith: I think they should be NPCs. Maybe redeemed Sith, or only if a GM is making a game specific to the characters, but as a general rule I vote no. In fact, I'd say we should have dark side scores for even non-Force users.
However, I think Droids and Bounty Hunters should be allowed.


What if we had the Sith and Jedi unaffiliated with a particular Order, and had them fighting more of a shadow war against particular Sith Lords?


What books are we looking at? Core is obvious, but Ive heard Force Unleashed is... uber-powered. Likely good for villains, but not Jedi PCs just yet. Or at least pick and choose particular powers.

 

[Insight]

What books are we looking at? Core is obvious, but Ive heard Force Unleashed is... uber-powered. Likely good for villains, but not Jedi PCs just yet. Or at least pick and choose particular powers.

I'd say we could probably get away with core rulebook only until the campaign gets off the ground and add the other books in slowly as it ramps up, giving people a chance to redo their characters with the new material.

 

[OnlytheStrong]

I'd cast my vote for only core (for now). I like how L4W has proposals. That would easily translate into SW.

Time frame: I can see any timeframe working... if you control the DM's. You could include main characters (Jabba, Emperor, Darth blah blah) but not allow them to be a combatant. It's kind of strongarming, but it's very very easy to explain. Let's use... Jabba. You are not going to get to him without guards. Elite guards (epic guards lol). Jabba may be level 10, but you have to fight though 5-10 epic people to get there. NOT worth the risk. Say the got the idea to destroy him from space... Jabba has people in the air too. He basically controls the planet.

Anywho, I think we can make any time frame work. The trick would be picking a very popular one.

Rebellion Era: What are we going to do when a party of rebels has an imperial player in their group? You can't really walk into a cantina and ask for only rebel supporters. Well you could, but it would be a really short story.

Rise of the Empire: Can't really find fault with that time frame. There is still the division between rebels and imperials... Sith are still about, jedi are on the verge of being very rare.

KOTOR: To be honest, I don't know much about this timeframe. You can make up a LARGE portion of stuff, but one could argue that even alittle thing could change the future.

I think the Empire setting would probably be the easiest/most fun for everyone to play. You could even bring the Sith back in force, and have the jedi begin a renewal. I could see a new jedi temple being built, even a new school for the jedi. Instead of hanging out at the cantina, they hang at a temple lol. Too complex? Idk. This thing could be as complex or simple as people want it to be.

I'd cast my vote for The Rise of the Empire.

 

[fireinthedust]

I'd cast my vote for only core (for now). I like how L4W has proposals. That would easily translate into SW.

I like this. For now, we go Main Book (as theoretically everything is "core"), and proposal things in.

I think the Empire setting would probably be the easiest/most fun for everyone to play. You could even bring the Sith back in force, and have the jedi begin a renewal. I could see a new jedi temple being built, even a new school for the jedi. Instead of hanging out at the cantina, they hang at a temple lol. Too complex? Idk. This thing could be as complex or simple as people want it to be.

I'd cast my vote for The Rise of the Empire.

I think we shouldn't have player Imperials or Sith. That's like having FR players start in the Zhentarim, or as Orcs working for Morder in a LOTR game.


What if we did an alternate timeline setup? Like, Rebellion-era, but we don't have the Jedi all die off. A few survived and started up a new Temple, which players can come from or train at later on; or else can earn their way into after MC from another class.

 

[drothgery]

I've always set my SWSE games (mostly PBPs here) in periods where there was little or no canon; I've done my version of a few centuries after KotOR (though I think the timeline for the new Old Republic MMO tramples on my K'ril wars...) and an inifinities game set in a universe 25 years after RotJ where Luke, Vader, and the Emperor died permanently in the 2nd Death Star explosion and the Vong don't exist.

The basic advantage to creating an era (whether in a mostly unmapped part of the Star Wars timeline or by doing an alternate timeline) is that you're limitting the effects of canon on your game. The disadvantage is that there's far less to work with, and things players 'know' about the Star Wars universe will be wrong. And for a living world, you need to hash out more than the just wherever the PCs happen to be at the time.

 

[fireinthedust]

The basic advantage to creating an era (whether in a mostly unmapped part of the Star Wars timeline or by doing an alternate timeline) is that you're limitting the effects of canon on your game. The disadvantage is that there's far less to work with, and things players 'know' about the Star Wars universe will be wrong. And for a living world, you need to hash out more than the just wherever the PCs happen to be at the time.

Yes, well put. Although I think alternate timelines, were you pick a point and go with it, can draw on the same material but allow the game to carry forward naturally. I'd want to know about Darth Vader, at the very least that he'd been there at some point, even if it was after he'd died.

granted, for homebrew, I think everyone is familiar enough with homebrew that it's not a huge issue to re-make a setting (ie: setting a game in Faerun, or making up a totally new PoL setting of the party's own). Still, that may not hold as well for SW gamers. Guh, dilemma it is, when to set this game...

Brainstorming Idea: a list of things in the setting that you wouldn't want to game without. We can maybe even re-make a particular thing in a given era of play, that's from another era (example: some race started cloning again in the rebellion era, and a number of clones work for the rebellion, while others have gone it alone; none of these new generations are programmed with Order 66).
Regardless, this could help give an idea of when we'd like to set the Living game, and what common setting elements to add in. Even if we don't have Jabba, there could be multiple takes on Hutt Gangsters who have filled the void left by the corpulent crime boss.

Oh, and if you make one, ignore mine and we'll see what pops up most often.

Fireinthedust's list:

Hutt gangsters
Stormtroopers
Star Destroyers
The Empire
Droid armies of some sort
the Jedi Order
Sith Lords and apprentices
Cantinas
Wookies
Droids of all sorts
Ewoks
Darth Vader
Natalie Portman
Bounty Hunters
Scoundrels
Tatooine
Coruscant/city-planets
the Death Star
The Rebellion
Clones & Clone troopers
Yoda
Lightsabre fighting styles
Cybernetic replacements/enhancements

 

[fireinthedust]

Another concern: Crunch!

So far the era of a shared universe is up for grabs (and if we have a group of judges willing to participate with me, it should be voted on), but the issue of crunch is going to come up far more often than era questions: what do I do round-by-round, in combat, etc.


The following are proposals, and can/should be adjusted by discussion, if needed.


Books: Core only (proposal for new material process once we get going for sure; and likely expand to almost everything fairly quickly)

Stats: My current game uses the array of 16, 15, 14, 13, 12, 10. It works well, and I like it better than the standard array of the core book. Point buy for this would be 37, assuming all stats start at 8, cost as per the core book. Max stat number should be, what, 18 before racial adjustments? 16? (I can see Wookies with high Str and Con, but in SW that's not huge, with Jedi and dex-based blasters)

Races: Core races, and droids. Others by proposal.
Droids should be custom droids, though if they're an "astromech", etc., they're that; just not the statblock for a normal droid.
I think Vocabulators for wookies, etc. are good.
Ewoks: I've got an Ewok techie I'm building (scoundrel) who I'd want to spend a bonus scoundrel feat to get Pistol proficiency, but RAW says only wp: advanced weapons. Could we allow for that for primitive races, if it's a bonus feat?

Classes: Core classes. Force-users should level up generally as Jedi, or at least part of the Jedi tradition (for PCs). NPC Sith should use the Jedi class or other classes as desired, for the math/lightsabre talents. Ie: I don't have a problem with using the Jedi class as *the* force-user/lightsabre class for other orders of force-users.

Prestige Classes: I vote against Dark Side classes, tho until we're at that level it won't matter. The reason is they're bad guys, and the stats are for DMs, or players in a darksider game. Also I think Force users should all be Jedi-based, rather than the dathomiiri witches or sith, etc. For now, at least.

Feats/Skills: Core.

Equipment/starting wealth/owned droids: should be standard. I don't have an issue with a player spending credits on a droid, though certain battle droids should be restricted until unlocked in play. GMs should be allowed to disallow a particular droid, but must warn a player before accepting them into a game.

Ships/Vehicles: I think PCs should be able to buy a ship, but its use should be okay'd with whatever GM is running the game. If a PC isn't allowed to use their ship in-game, they should be told before they're accepted into the game.

Destiny points: No, too powerful for now.

Force Points: Standard; however, perhaps on a per-adventure basis rather than per level?

XP: no idea here. Standard?

GM Rewards: I'm leaning towards XP for their characters, and maybe access to special equipment (ships) so we get GMs to run a game to earn access to their own ships? Maybe also Force powers that are more powerful, like what I've heard about Force Unleashed: if the player is responsible enough to run a game for others, give them more leeway?

 

[OnlytheStrong]

Okay..... Let's take it one step at a time. If you want to talk crunch that's fine. But we only have 6 different people that have posted in this thread, and between the 6 of us we haven't came up with a suitable starting point.

I'd like to hold off on the crunch part until we can at least figure where we are starting. That will let us make the crunch part better.

Tha alternate timeline thing is a fine idea, and we can openly advertise it as so. I doubt players would complain if they knew that up front. That said, we still have to pick a point to branch off from.

I am almost tempted to say that we start it far enough in the future to where most of the stuff people know is the general history. We can have a droid army coming back, we can have the sith approaching again, we can have the jedi re-establish themselves, and we can have the rebellion against the empire. It could even be the immediate future. Simply start where the movies left off... Wookiepedia be dammed lol.

Just my opinion, but I don't see a real issue with it. Jabba can still be alive (how long does a worm live anyway), Fett coulda cloned himself (a clone of a clone lol).