Long Term Pickpoqueting

[Zulgyan]

OK, my PCs have arrived to town after several weeks of adventure, they got loot to sell, contacts to maintain, buisness to handle. Warrior want's to sell-buy weaponry. Wizard wants to scribe scrolls.

Now, the Rogue says he wants to spend most of his time "pickpoqueting" at town. How would you handle this kind of "long term" pickpoqueting?? I just won't have him roll dozen of "sleight of hands" skill checks.

I was thinking about an abstract system, in wich you roll once a day, representing the day's "activity". Maybe set a DC, high if you aim at the rich guys, low if you aim at the poor ones. Once you get the DC, PC rolls. If he fails, he's caught. If he succes he'll get extra money for every extra-point of success.

Any of you got some rules for this or know about some book were this is treated??

Thanks,

Z.

 

[Celebrim]

As a very simple suggestion, I'd treat this as a Profession skill check for determining how much he can pocket, possibly allowing his ranks in Gather Information or Appraise to apply if he didn't have Profession (pick pocket). I'd ask the player how 'aggressively' he wished to pursue the pick pocketing, and modify the profession check by between -10 (casually) and +10 (very aggressively) depending on his reply, and another modifier for the wealth level of the town (say -5 for a simple peasant village, +5 for a major cosmopolitan). Then I'd have him make a single Sleight of Hand check for a day/week's work versus DC 15 modified by the same modifier for the players aggressiveness, and another for the compentance of the local authorities (and/or the local thieves guild that might think he's muscling in on thier turf) If he fails this check, at some point in the day/week he gets caught, and at that point I'd begin role playing from the start of whatever scenario you invent.

I also have a 2nd edition source book on thieves in a box somewhere that I seem to remember having detailed rules for how much money a thief could make by working. If I dig it out I'll look it over and see if any of it could be useful to you.

 

[Drowbane]

OK, my PCs have arrived to town after several weeks of adventure, they got loot to sell, contacts to maintain, buisness to handle. Warrior want's to sell-buy weaponry. Wizard wants to scribe scrolls.

Now, the Rogue says he wants to spend most of his time "pickpoqueting" at town. How would you handle this kind of "long term" pickpoqueting?? I just won't have him roll dozen of "sleight of hands" skill checks.

I was thinking about an abstract system, in wich you roll once a day, representing the day's "activity". Maybe set a DC, high if you aim at the rich guys, low if you aim at the poor ones. Once you get the DC, PC rolls. If he fails, he's caught. If he succes he'll get extra money for every extra-point of success.

Any of you got some rules for this or know about some book were this is treated??

Thanks,

Z.

Profession (thief) with a synergies from Open Locks, Sleight of Hand, and perhaps Move Silently/Hide?

I could see day to day living expenses being covered this way... with "big score" thefts being covered in game with a DM.

 

[Arkhandus]

I really don't see why people are suggesting not using Sleight of Hand as the main skill for this pick-pocketing. *mind boggles*

You could use a Sleight of Hand check once per week and treat it like a Profession check in terms of results (some amount of silver pieces or whatever, I forget what the Profession skill says exactly), opposed by some Spot check representing the average victim's chances of noticing (just roll one Spot check per week like this). If the Sleight of Hand check beats the Spot check, then the Rogue makes money as per the Profession skill perhaps; if the Rogue's check wins by 5 or more points, he or she might earn double the normal amount.

The Spot check should probably be based on the average victim's modifier; say, if the Rogue wants to try his luck among the wealthier parts of town, the Spot modifier may be +10 or +12 (assuming you're not a high-level group right now; if high-level, then they might be in an area frequented by other experienced people or very observant guards, in which case the Spot modifier may be +15 or +18 instead).

If the Spot check equals or exceeds the Sleight of Hand check, assume the Rogue is caught on one or two days but escapes, making no profit on those days but still getting some valuables on other days of that week. This would probably mean he or she gets half the normal amount from the Sleight of Hand check. If the Spot check beats it by 1-4 points, say the Rogue gets caught several times and narrowly escapes, making only a little money (one-fifth or so of the normal amount for his skill check). If the Spot check beats his or her Sleight of Hand check by 5 or more points, say he's caught at some point during the week and thrown in jail (or stocks/pillories, or an empty well/pit, or a dungeon, or whatever the locals use for keeping captured criminals out of trouble).

How your town's authorities deal with thieves is up to you; in some places they may chop the thief's hands off, or just a few fingers; in other places, they may confiscate all of the thief's money, gems, jewelry, and precious stones, then set him or her free after a few days in the jail/stocks/whatever; and in other places, thieves may be punished by being publically abused, humiliated, and left to suffer for a few days or weeks with little food and little water, until finally set free; all of the thief's possessions might be confiscated by the authorities to repay the victims or pay the salaries of the town guards, or just some of the thief's money may be confiscated to be returned to the victims and pay for the bit of food, drink, and time spent by guards in keeping the thief alive and imprisoned until his or her release.

 

[Sound of Azure]

I was gonna make a suggestion, but Arkhandus covered what I was going to say very well.

You might also treat it as a "Complex" skill check over time, as shown in Unearthed Arcana.

 

[Bayonet_Chris]

Taking 20

Like all crime, the more you commit in a small area, the more likely you will get caught. I would treat it like taking 20 - allow him to get some good money out of it, then set up a conflict with either the local magistrates or a local thieves' guild. He's encroaching on someone's turf and bound to get notice. No action is without consequence.

 

[Celebrim]

I really don't see why people are suggesting not using Sleight of Hand as the main skill for this pick-pocketing. *mind boggles*

The main skills for picket-pocketing are probably Appraise (for figuring out who has money), Bluff (for getting close without arousing suspicion), Sense Motive (for knowing who is unwary), and Spot (for figuring out where the money is at). Sleight of Hand is just how you seal the deal. You first have to find a good mark to work - one that has money somewhere you can reach and has shown you where it is and has sufficient jink to be worth shaking. It's not like you can be a successful picket pocket and just jostle every Tom that comes along. You end up with a hand full of lint, a paper clip, some nail trimmings, and your arm in the clink.

If you could make more money as a picket pocket than you could doing an honest living, more people would be picket pockets. That's why I think the equivalent of a Profession check is a good idea. It's important to remember that pick pockets are at the bottom of the heap in the thief profession because the take on being a picket pocket is so low compared to the return on the investment in time and risk.

 

[Drowbane]

The main skills for picket-pocketing are probably Appraise (for figuring out who has money), Bluff (for getting close without arousing suspicion), Sense Motive (for knowing who is unwary), and Spot (for figuring out where the money is at). Sleight of Hand is just how you seal the deal. You first have to find a good mark to work - one that has money somewhere you can reach and has shown you where it is and has sufficient jink to be worth shaking. It's not like you can be a successful picket pocket and just jostle every Tom that comes along. You end up with a hand full of lint, a paper clip, some nail trimmings, and your arm in the clink.

If you could make more money as a picket pocket than you could doing an honest living, more people would be picket pockets. That's why I think the equivalent of a Profession check is a good idea. It's important to remember that pick pockets are at the bottom of the heap in the thief profession because the take on being a picket pocket is so low compared to the return on the investment in time and risk.

Damn dood, you beat me to the punch. And probably said it better than I would have anyways.

 

[Aust Diamondew]

Modify the Perform Chart:
Sleight of Hand DC What you stole
10 Only the blind and old are easy enough targets for you, you can earn 1d12 cp/day.
15 In a prosperous city, you can earn 1d12 sp/day.
20 In a prosperous city, you can earn 2d12 sp/day. In time, you may attract the attention of the local gang for edging in on their turf.
25 In a prosperous city, you can earn 1d8 gp/day. In time, you may come to the attention of law enforcement or the local theives guild.
30 In a prosperous city, you can earn 3d8 gp/day. You may luck out and actually steal something besides a few coins and trinkets, (5% chance of stealing something of greater value between 50-500 GP as determined by the DM).

The DM rolls an opposed spot check representing the general security and average spotting skill of the cities denizens. A success indicates the pick pocketter is caught and must attempt to flee or smooth talk his way out lest he be imprisoned or have a hand cut off.

 

[StGabe]

The main skills for picket-pocketing are probably Appraise (for figuring out who has money), Bluff (for getting close without arousing suspicion), Sense Motive (for knowing who is unwary), and Spot (for figuring out where the money is at). Sleight of Hand is just how you seal the deal. You first have to find a good mark to work - one that has money somewhere you can reach and has shown you where it is and has sufficient jink to be worth shaking. It's not like you can be a successful picket pocket and just jostle every Tom that comes along. You end up with a hand full of lint, a paper clip, some nail trimmings, and your arm in the clink.

Depends on how you define sleight of hand I suppose. I knew a magician who, for example, could occasionally pick people's watches off their arms. Sure he was dexterous but he was also great at just misdirecting attention and guiding someone through this all unawares. Same with with a lot of magic tricks, just a matter of keeping someone's eyes and attention in one place while you are busy doing something somewhere else.

Is that not sleight of hand? I'd say it is. You already get a synergy bonus to the skill if you have a good bluff. You might add synergy bonuses to career pick-pocketing for appraise/knowledge(local)/whatever but I think that just using the raw sleight of hand skill still makes sense. The stuff you're mentioning is already part of the broad definition of the skill.