Looking for a LA called Feral?

[Eman Resu]

couple of questions
how does a LA like feral effect a gestalt build? That is does the cost of LA+1 take a level from both sides of the build? 2ndly what is the detials of this, the bonuses/penalties etc? or where can I find it online?

 

[Greenfield]

The template is in Savage Species, and is level dependent.

The more "monster" levels the creature has (i.e. creature hit dice not counting actual levels), the more bonuses it gives, and the bigger the LA is.

So it isn't exactly applicable to most PC races, since they start with zero hit dice other than actual class levels. You need a base race that already has a level adjustment built in as a foundation.

Basic description can be found here -> Creature Templates

Wizards has a conversion for treating it like a prestige class, with progression. Look here -> Whoops! Browser Settings Incompatible

Hope that helps.

 

[Visigani]

The template is in Savage Species, and is level dependent.

The more "monster" levels the creature has (i.e. creature hit dice not counting actual levels), the more bonuses it gives, and the bigger the LA is.

So it isn't exactly applicable to most PC races, since they start with zero hit dice other than actual class levels. You need a base race that already has a level adjustment built in as a foundation.

Basic description can be found here -> Creature Templates

Wizards has a conversion for treating it like a prestige class, with progression. Look here -> Whoops! Browser Settings Incompatible

Hope that helps.

I believe you may be... incorrect.. at least as far as the bonus benefits being based on how many levels of monstrous humanoid hit dice you have. I believe those benefits also apply based on level.


Hit Die
In the singular form, a die rolled to generate hit points. In the plural form, a measure of relative power that is synonymous with character level for the sake of spells, magic items, and magical effects that affect a certain number of Hit Dice (HD) of creatures.

Source: PHB



Sleep:
A sleep spell causes a magical slumber to come upon 4 Hit Dice of creatures. Creatures with the fewest HD are affected first.

If Hit Die was not synonymous with level than all lvl 1 human fighters would be immune to sleep

 

[kitcik]

To answer the OP's first question, the gestalt build will have a total of 2X levels. After the LA, it will be 2X - LA (meaning it effectively only comes off one side).

The template is in Savage Species, and is level dependent.

Yes

The more "monster" levels the creature has (i.e. creature hit dice not counting actual levels), the more bonuses it gives, and the bigger the LA is.

So it isn't exactly applicable to most PC races, since they start with zero hit dice other than actual class levels. You need a base race that already has a level adjustment built in as a foundation.

I think this is the subject of some debate. A lot of people believe this works with PC levels.

Wizards has a conversion for treating it like a prestige class, with progression. Look here -> Whoops! Browser Settings Incompatible

This is just some dude that posted on Wizards' forum.

 

[Greenfield]

Okay, I missed something. How does one hit die of human fighter total to more than 4 dice of creature?

In any case, I was making the distinction between dice/levels and actual earned levels (i.e. class levels). The ECL adjustment for the Feral template varies depending on the hit dice/levels of the base creature it's applied to. Not to earned levels.

If you got more benefits as you earned levels, the ECL would be constantly changing, effectively keeping you from earning those levels. In which case the ECL wouldn't have changed, so you would get those levels. In which case ...

That way lay madness.

 

[kitcik]

Okay, I missed something. How does one hit die of human fighter total to more than 4 dice of creature?

In any case, I was making the distinction between dice/levels and actual earned levels (i.e. class levels). The ECL adjustment for the Feral template varies depending on the hit dice/levels of the base creature it's applied to. Not to earned levels.

If you got more benefits as you earned levels, the ECL would be constantly changing, effectively keeping you from earning those levels. In which case the ECL wouldn't have changed, so you would get those levels. In which case ...

That way lay madness.

I freely admit that LA +1 seems low based on the interpretation I am describing. That said, RAW is not always logical.

Personally, as DM I would not let it scale with PC level (be it RAW or homebrew).

That said, the CR "adjustment" constantly changes, but the LA does not. It is flat LA +1 RAW.

The description says "A feral creature gains additional special attacks depending on its Hit Dice..." and "A feral creature gains additional special qualities depending on its hit dice..."

Note that it says "gains" not "has," implying that as hit dice increase, the abilities are added.

 

[Eman Resu]

I read something under Feral that a pc could be a member of society then for reason X he takes to the bush "goes feral" wouldnt this likewise suggest that this is happening to a race with class levels?

I didnt get the 1st level immune to sleep ref either, did you mean 4th or higher level?

 

[Greenfield]

I freely admit that LA +1 seems low based on the interpretation I am describing. That said, RAW is not always logical.

Personally, as DM I would not let it scale with PC level (be it RAW or homebrew).

That said, the CR "adjustment" constantly changes, but the LA does not. It is flat LA +1 RAW.

The description says "A feral creature gains additional special attacks depending on its Hit Dice..." and "A feral creature gains additional special qualities depending on its hit dice..."

Note that it says "gains" not "has," implying that as hit dice increase, the abilities are added.

Perhaps he gains these things when the template is applied? I'll have to take a look in my book before I really get into this one. I still rely on dead-tree additions for most of this stuff.

 

[kitcik]

I am out. I agree with you from a RAI perspective and a balance perspective. I am just saying I have seen this argument in multiple places on the net and I just wanted the OP to know there are two sides to this.

 

[Visigani]

Based on one above forumites definition of hit dice those hit dice would not equal levels. Consequently, because a first level human fighter would have a level rather than a hit die he would not be susceptible to Sleep based on RAW, because only creatures with hit die are.


In other words, I was using that illustration to show how their view of what hit die were was wrong.