Looking for a simpler PC Gen...

[magnusmalkus]

I've tried PC Gen but I've found it too complex. Does anyone know of any simple, gui based FREE character creators like what Master Tools tried to do?

I'd use Jamis Buck NPC generators but I want to generate NPC not RANDOM NPC's.

 

[kingpaul]

I've tried PC Gen but I've found it too complex.

What did you find complex about it?

 

[Vascant]

For NPC Generation you have three choices:

1. Completely random results with little to no logic. There are a few of these running around.

2. Use your favorate Char Gen software and create the NPC by hand, this is not generation persay however all of the math is done for you.

3. NPC Designer.

I wouldn't say PCGen is complexed, just has the same learning curve that comes with any software. Same could be said for any application.

 

[magnusmalkus]

What did you find complex about it?

I was intimidated by the download homepage, there as ton of information and no clear direction on which file was the one I needed to download. Based on the download page, I immediately got the impression that this was a serious program and not some 'fluffy bunny' program like I was looking for.

You have to keep in mind that I find Excell spreadsheets complex. I've downloaded some Character Sheet files for Excell and found my head swimming so keep in mind, my grasp of complex scripts is weak.

More complexity was added to my downfall in the language used, it used more javascript jargon than actual d20 jargon. A pop-up 'first time walkthru' for first time users would have helped out. I had no idea how to start out the procress, there was no prompt on how to get started. All I saw was a list of supplements to load and thru trial and error, I discovered I had to 'load sources' or something like that. I didn't recognize any of the supplements. I did recognize the 3.5 SRD so I moved that over to the right side and pressed the load button, and then a Y showed up under the Loaded column but ... then what? I couldnt figure out what to do next. All i could do was move 'sources' from the right to the left and load them. There was no prompting on what to do next. I never saw one stat roll or race/class/feat/skill selection... I rapidly lost interest.

If I can't pick something up and have it be intuitive, then it's going to be an exercise in frustration and probably not worth my time. Programs should be built with the user in mind and if that rule was applied to PC Gen, then apparently the program was made with more script-savy (or generally more intelligent) users in mind.

Regardless of what I found complex about it, the fact remains I find it too complex for my means and I'm looking for something more user-friendly with a simpler, intuitive GUI.

The Master Tools program that came with the PHB when 3.0 first came out had the right idea.

 

[mattcolville]

I was intimidated by the download homepage, there as ton of information and no clear direction on which file was the one I needed to download. Based on the download page, I immediately got the impression that this was a serious program and not some 'fluffy bunny' program like I was looking for.

You have to keep in mind that I find Excell spreadsheets complex. I've downloaded some Character Sheet files for Excell and found my head swimming so keep in mind, my grasp of complex scripts is weak.

More complexity was added to my downfall in the language used, it used more javascript jargon than actual d20 jargon. A pop-up 'first time walkthru' for first time users would have helped out. I had no idea how to start out the procress, there was no prompt on how to get started. All I saw was a list of supplements to load and thru trial and error, I discovered I had to 'load sources' or something like that. I didn't recognize any of the supplements. I did recognize the 3.5 SRD so I moved that over to the right side and pressed the load button, and then a Y showed up under the Loaded column but ... then what? I couldnt figure out what to do next. All i could do was move 'sources' from the right to the left and load them. There was no prompting on what to do next. I never saw one stat roll or race/class/feat/skill selection... I rapidly lost interest.

If I can't pick something up and have it be intuitive, then it's going to be an exercise in frustration and probably not worth my time. Programs should be built with the user in mind and if that rule was applied to PC Gen, then apparently the program was made with more script-savy (or generally more intelligent) users in mind.

Regardless of what I found complex about it, the fact remains I find it too complex for my means and I'm looking for something more user-friendly with a simpler, intuitive GUI.

The Master Tools program that came with the PHB when 3.0 first came out had the right idea.

You have to understand that, to a highly educated power-user, PCGen is simple and intuitive and to someone in that position, it's inexplicable how someone else could not get it.

This is the essence of good design. Knowing how to create a product for the intended users, not you.

HeroForge is just about as complex as my group can handle and even then, I have some players who are intimidated by it and can't figure it out.

 

[2WS-Steve]

I believe Redblade 3.5 is free (here's a link to the download page):

http://downloads.redblade.org/

There's a newer version coming out sometime too that will be more customizable, and still free.

 

[The Lost Muse]

Redblade is pretty simple to use, and if you don't use a lot of house rules it's a definate good one.

 

[magnusmalkus]

I believe Redblade 3.5 is free (here's a link to the download page):

http://downloads.redblade.org/

There's a newer version coming out sometime too that will be more customizable, and still free.

Yes, Redblade seems to be the kind of program I was looking for. I didn't need too much customization, I'm running a pretty simple game.

Thank you for the suggestion.

 

[Keldryn]

You have to understand that, to a highly educated power-user, PCGen is simple and intuitive and to someone in that position, it's inexplicable how someone else could not get it.

This is the essence of good design. Knowing how to create a product for the intended users, not you.

HeroForge is just about as complex as my group can handle and even then, I have some players who are intimidated by it and can't figure it out.

I think that's a pretty arrogant and elitist attitude to take. Of course a good design takes into account the needs of its intended users. However, the intended users of a D&D utility program are not necessarily computer experts who are familiar with the ins and outs of the open source community.

I can't stand using PC Gen. It has a terribly non-intuitive user interface -- a flaw it shares with the vast majority of open source software -- and it is ridiculously slow because it's a cross-platform Java application. It feels like I'm running a Web-based app it's so laggy. Immediately upon installing PC Gen, you're presented with a massive list of products to install without much explanation as to what each one is (and it's an annoying fixed-width dialog box that you have to horizontally scroll to read the full text of any of the products).

SourceForge is not a friendly place for non-programmers. It presents long lists of filenames that most users don't care about. 5.10.1, 5.8.1, 5.11.5, release candidates, beta versions, etc. It's a lot of stuff that anyone who isn't a programmer doesn't care about and shouldn't have to wade through.

There is no doubt that PCGen is powerful. But it is not intuitive and it is more complex than a lot of gamers are going to want to deal with.

For the record, I've played D&D in most of its incarnations for over 20 years and I've been programming professionally for over 6 years in C++, C#, ASP, XSLT, Javascript, etc. And I think PC Gen is unintuitive, clunky, and overly complex.

 

[magnusmalkus]

I think that's a pretty arrogant and elitist attitude to take. Of course a good design takes into account the needs of its intended users. However, the intended users of a D&D utility program are not necessarily computer experts who are familiar with the ins and outs of the open source community.

I can't stand using PC Gen. It has a terribly non-intuitive user interface -- a flaw it shares with the vast majority of open source software -- and it is ridiculously slow because it's a cross-platform Java application. It feels like I'm running a Web-based app it's so laggy. Immediately upon installing PC Gen, you're presented with a massive list of products to install without much explanation as to what each one is (and it's an annoying fixed-width dialog box that you have to horizontally scroll to read the full text of any of the products).

SourceForge is not a friendly place for non-programmers. It presents long lists of filenames that most users don't care about. 5.10.1, 5.8.1, 5.11.5, release candidates, beta versions, etc. It's a lot of stuff that anyone who isn't a programmer doesn't care about and shouldn't have to wade through.

There is no doubt that PCGen is powerful. But it is not intuitive and it is more complex than a lot of gamers are going to want to deal with.

For the record, I've played D&D in most of its incarnations for over 20 years and I've been programming professionally for over 6 years in C++, C#, ASP, XSLT, Javascript, etc. And I think PC Gen is unintuitive, clunky, and overly complex.

Well said. I feel the same way. I'm glad you were able to express it. Espically the 'useless to me' information. I'm glad the site PCGen dowload page wasn't croweded with "Click me! Click Me!" stuff but the endless jargon was equally as annoying.

After using this other PC Generator for only five minuites, I'm immediately glad for the inclusion of the Next > button. I already made my major NPC and the process was a breeze.