Looks like someone enjoyed her time in jail

[Ryujin]

I was just reading an article a couple days ago wherein the writer- a Mormon- listed incidents in which religious conservatives berated his children for not being the right kind of Chrisitans...and this was done by someone who was actively evangelizing for converts.

Clearly, someone was unclear on the concept of who can be called for conversion (namely, anyone) and how best to do it (don't insult them, at least).

In my own past, I had run-ins with fellow Chrisitians. My HS- a private Catholic* all-boys school- made national news back in the early 1980s when a Baptist private school decided they were not going to play us anymore because we were Catholics...nevermind they had been playing us for years, and that the fact of our Catholicism was easily discernible since the school's name is one that goes back to the roots of the monastic tradition and has only ever been associated with Catholicism.

IOW, Gandhi had us pegged.

As for your methodology...well let's stipulate that I'm a typical American Catholic: my reading of the bible has been limited to chunks here & there. But despite my not reading it cover-to-cover, my scholarship over what I HAVE read is good enough that when I get drawn into debates, the aphorism about the Devil quoting scripture often gets lobbed in my general direction.

I had some Word of Faith devotees- you know, those who followed televangelist Bob Tilton?- approach me (and some of my fellow HS grads) one night. By the time I was finished arguing with them about the Gift Of Tongues, they were in full, stammering retreat.

* as in, owned & operated by Catholic monks, but open to boys of any faith.

Tilton. Yeesh. One of the "send me money and be saved", "cast your bread upon the waters" frauds.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

One of those weird stats I heard is that atheists score higher on "bible knowledge" than Christians do. As NBC says, "the more you know..."

I don't mean that as a diss on the religion, but it seems the folks doing the worst behavior sure don't really know what's in their own book.

Oh, you got THAT right. One of the aforementioned Word of Faithers trying to convert me asked me about who would save us from the "Powers, Thrones, Principalities and Dominions" if not ministers like Tilton.

I pointed out to him that, along with Seraphim, Cherubim, Archangels, Virtues, etc., those were ANGELS.

 

[Umbran]

On the vocal atheism front, I've got a few friends who are fond of frequently posting "why religion is badwrongfun" type stuff.

The usual term for this is not "atheist" but "anti-theist". Not just, "I don't believe," but, "I don't believe, and I find that belief in others is harmful."

I just don't see the point of being aggressive on topics like that.

There often isn't a real point - it isn't as if the believer is going to be moved by it. But...

I don't feel an overwhelming need to correct that situation. I can always leave off "Under God" when I say the pledge if it comes up.

Some would say the precedent matters, as does the indoctrination of kids who have to say it every day in school.

I don't see it as my job or duty to point out all the inaccuracies, contradictions in somebody's religion. It's not appropriate to convert them. It's only appropriate for all of us to act in a way that remains compatible with each other. Which is what the separation of church and state concept helps address.

There is something to be said for pointing them out when the religious are shoving themselves in your face. If you are living your life, and your religion is in your heart, that is good. If you come after my gay friends using Leviticus quotes as justification, then it is time for a few words. Not that the believer will change their position, as it isn't about converting the believer, but 1) my gay friends need to see that I support them, and 2) making public some of what should be our common precepts for governance, behavior, and decision making has value. The believer may have forgotten them, or thrown them aside, but I can reinforce them in those who haven't gone to that extreme.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Tilton. Yeesh. One of the "send me money and be saved", "cast your bread upon the waters" frauds.

Yeah.

After he got run out of Texas exposed as a fraud in the early 1990s, he moved to Florida and started over with something called "Success in Life" or some such. Same basic message as in other "prosperity gospel" sermons- including his own- but secularized. Made a bunch of episodes, and started airing them in the mid/late 1990s.

He's still raking in millions annually, last I checked...and when last I checked, he hadn't made a new episode in this century.

 

[Ryujin]

Yeah.

After he got run out of Texas exposed as a fraud in the early 1990s, he moved to Florida and started over with something called "Success in Life" or some such. Same basic message as in other "prosperity gospel" sermons- including his own- but secularized. Made a bunch of episodes, and started airing them in the mid/late 1990s.

He's still raking in millions annually, last I checked...and when last I checked, he hadn't made a new episode in this century.

I recently watched a documentary about their con. Can't remember where I picked it up, but it was likely via Youtube. Reminded me of Sunday morning channel flipping, running across Ernest Angley with his brazen, "Send me five dollars, ten dollars, twenty dollars.... whatever you can afford and you WILL BE SAVED!"

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I found this:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lisa-...esus_b_8134048.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592

What compelled me to post that link was a paragraph towards the end, in which the atheist writer exhorts moderate & liberal Christians in the USA to do exactly what many Americans have asked of moderate Muslims: speak up against the conservative and radical right who are presenting the most visible and audible messages of their faiths.

Good message.

Re: televangelists

A couple years ago, I stumbled on a blog by an evangelical minister. Not my usual read, but he got my attention. In his post, he did a wonderful takedown on the big name televangelists- and some unknown to me, at least- who were preaching some kind of variant of the prosperity gospel. I should have bookmarked it, because it's was a well thought-out, theologically grounded, thorough, and scholarly piece. But as a blog, it probably only reached a few thousand of his followers and some random traffic like myself.

Edit: this isn't it, but it covers much of the same ground:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/pastor-rick-henderson/osteen-meyer-prosperity-gospel_b_3790384.html

 

[Ryujin]

I've never understood this "Prosperity Gospel." It's as if they're preaching you can fool God into believing that you're giving of yourself without ulterior motive, so that you can become a millionaire. What use a god who can be tricked with such a moral shell game?

 

[Rabulias]

John Oliver did an episode of Last Week Tonight about televangelists. Robert Tilton was a prominent focus.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7y1xJAVZxXg

 

[Ryujin]

John Oliver did an episode of Last Week Tonight about televangelists. Robert Tilton was a prominent focus.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7y1xJAVZxXg

I saw that. In fact I think it was from that, that I was forwarded to the doc I remember watching.

 

[Homicidal_Squirrel]

John Oliver did an episode of Last Week Tonight about televangelists. Robert Tilton was a prominent focus.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7y1xJAVZxXg

Sadly John Oliver and Wanda had to shut it down.