"Lorraine Williams Scenario" Forked Thread: from Death of the LGS

[Charwoman Gene]

Forked from: Death of the LGS

And, no offense OP, but you say that if we support the FLGS, somehow that will stop 5E and 6E from being total crapola? I don't see that making any difference. D&D is no longer in the hands of gamers. We're back to a Lorraine Williams scenario.

I see no evidence whatsoever to support this statement, other than the fact that you might not like 4e. Hasbro expcets WotC to make a profit, but lets them decide how. Collectible games provide most of the regular profit for WotC (AFAIK) and aside from a little restructuring to better monetize the game, I don't see any evidence of non-gamer influence.

 

[Grimstaff]

Maybe this is just my experience, but I would have to relate the death of LGSs to a greivous lack of any work ethic whatsoever. Out of the dozens of GSs i've visited in the last 10 years or so, I can think of two that were actually run like businesses. The others featured smelly, sloppily dressed guys reading comics or playing video games who couldn't be bothered to step away from their distractions long enough to keep the store clean, stock organized, learn about their product, much less help a customer or attempt to make a sale.

If a shop is run by lazy slobs playing video games, how could it possibly succeed? And so you know, the two shops that kept it business like seemed to be doing very well, the rest have been closing one by one over the years.

How many times have you walked into a LGS to find the employees playing video games?

 

[Charwoman Gene]

What does this have to do with Non-gamer influience and Lorraine williams?

 

[Tao]

Maybe this is just my experience, but I would have to relate the death of LGSs to a greivous lack of any work ethic whatsoever. Out of the dozens of GSs i've visited in the last 10 years or so, I can think of two that were actually run like businesses. The others featured smelly, sloppily dressed guys reading comics or playing video games who couldn't be bothered to step away from their distractions long enough to keep the store clean, stock organized, learn about their product, much less help a customer or attempt to make a sale.

If a shop is run by lazy slobs playing video games, how could it possibly succeed? And so you know, the two shops that kept it business like seemed to be doing very well, the rest have been closing one by one over the years.

How many times have you walked into a LGS to find the employees playing video games?

This is a very good point, and I have been fortunate enough to be friends with a couple of game store owners who took their business very seriously. When I worked (briefly... between real jobs) at a game store last summer, I talked to the owner about his business and he asked me what I thought the key to having a good store was. I replied, "Having a sense of community with the local gamers", to which he replied that was only a piece in the puzzle. "The key," he said, "is to make money. I know it sounds callous, but a sense of community doesn't mean anything if you're not making money. Your shop will close and then all that sense of community won't matter. You have a community so you can make money so you can continue to have a community. Too many game stores go under because they forget that they're a business."

It was kind of an eye opener for me, but I realized its true. The places that have been around for a long time and have a good community are the same ones that push sales and make cash.

It's economics, stupid.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

What does this have to do with Non-gamer influience and Lorraine williams?

Nothing, to be honest I also see very little non gamer influence in recent WoTC descision except that the sale of 3.x splat books has passed their peak and there may have been pressure to bring in a new edition because of that. Also the format of the new edition with multiple core books is obviously designed to sell more books.
The mathematics of the game also supports the sale of a lot of books before power creep and related issues will cause the edition to implode.
Right now the warlock at least could do with about double the powers as the fey and star pact have few option relative to the infernal pact.
Of course it could also reflect dark bargins between Hasbro and WoTC

 

[WayneLigon]

I see no evidence whatsoever to support this statement, other than the fact that you might not like 4e.

Exactly. They're probably not in the hands of Korgoth's type of gamer, but they are gamers nonetheless. Thank goodness. He also forgets that the Blumes were, as far as I can remember, gamers yet their greedy schemes ran TSR into the ground long before Williams showed up to pat the dirt on the grave.

There's nothing preventing a gamer from having or gaining a good business sense. I've seen plenty of 'gamer run' companies in the past; they're in 'the past' becuase none of those companies are in business today and the things they created lay forgotten and unplayed in dusty backstock areas or haunt the fringes of eBay.

 

[Deuce Traveler]

A lot of people who run RPG shops own them because they like their own personal favorites (usually Warhammer miniatures) and want to play with friends all the time, but care and understand little for the industry as a whole.

 

[Fifth Element]

People seem to have missed the point of forking this new thread from the old one. Most of the comments so far belong in the other thread.

Back to the OP: I agree. I think people overestimate the amount of influence that Hasbro "suits" had in the development of D&D. All of the designers and developers of the game are gamers. Not to mention the editors. Obviously they have a mandate for it to be profitable, and it's possible they have specific profit targets. But they're gamers, and they designed the game. The argument that the game is no longer "in the hands of gamers" is unsupportable, I think.

 

[Turjan]

I would give a split answer to this question.

The game itself (the mechanics, flavor, etc.) is definitely in the hands of gamers. I would put all of the main game designers of 4e in this category.

As far as the distribution model goes (like spreading the former core essentials over several core PHBs/MMs and years), it is a pure business decision, something I don't think a gamer would do this way.

 

[pogminky]

Was DDi pushed more by suits or gamers?