D&D 5E Lost Mines...and then? Advice needed.

[Thymm]

First of all, hello, as you can see I'm quite new here and this is my first thread.
I already read a few threads, that compared a few adventures, but still not sure that to do.
Still have a few sessions left, until we finish the current adventure, so I'm not under pressure.

Player Background:
Six players - completely newbies, played their first two sessions with me -> Lost Mines of Phandelver (sorry, never know how that town is really called/spelled). They liked it so far.
Everything takes a lot of time, because they never played anything like D&D. Some of them played PC games.

They did create their own characters.

We have:
1 Dwarven Fighter
2 Human Paladins (One tanky guy, with shield and sword and the other one uses 2-handed weapons)
1 Elf Ranger (will go Beast Master)
1 Human Cleric (Tempest)
1 Dragonborn Rogue (will go Assassin)

The tanky paladin will probably drop out after the next one or two sessions.

No character is optimized, as the main goal is to play around, get to know D&D and have fun.

The players really took their time to create their characters (and it REALLY took time, as I sat down with everyone and explained everything - classes, races, backgrounds, etc.). I even created a presentation about D&D, TTRPGS, the game terms and we even had a group discussion after that...

DM background (that's me):
I seem a bit chaotic sometimes, but I actually like to be well prepared.
I started DMing around 2003 with 2e, but jumped right to 3e after a few sessions, skipped 4e completely, so I have a little experience. I personally like to give my characters many different choices, but I don't know, if having too many choices (side quests) is good for my new players.

I like to keep the magic low, and every magic item get's a little backstory (at least one or two sentences). I don't just say "That's a sword +1", but try to explain and use ingame language.

I'm more of a "rules light" DM, not using rolls for everything and not using all the rules everytime. My players know that. I'm also aware, that six players is a rather big group.


Questions:

That said, any advice on what adventure to play after lost mines is appreciated.

I currently own Hoard of the Dragon Queen and Rise of Tiamat, but I'm going to buy PoA and Abyss soon.
What I heard so far:
-) Hoard is full of mistakes and many people didn't enjoy it. Very railroady (is that a real word?)
-) Princes is very sandboxy and turns into a dungeon crawl. Repetitive.
-) Abyss has many great reviews, some call it the best official adventure in years. Haven't heard a lot about it.

1) My players probably want to keep their characters
1.2) I don't want to skip parts of adventures, so I'll probably have to adjust the existing ones in the beginning, right?

2) How well do the other three modules go hand in hand with lost mines?

3) How flexible are they?

4) Any of the adventures especially hard for new players?

5) My players know nothing about the world (we play FR setting), so is there anything that needs specific PLAYER knowledge?


Thanks in advance for your time and advice!

 

[Rya.Reisender]

Princes of the Apocalpyse is not only the second best rated adventure (with LMoP being the best), but also actually considers groups coming from LMoP, so it's the perfect choice when the players want to keep their LMoP characters. It also worth noting that PotA starts at level 3, so it's at least a bit more challenging for LMoP groups than the other adventures that start at level 1.

Abyss is still rated below PotA, but yeah, it's understandable that several people like it best. It's more unique than the other adventures, that's for sure.

I'm not the most familiar with all the adventures, but I'll still try to specifically reply to your questions:

1) My players probably want to keep their characters
1.2) I don't want to skip parts of adventures, so I'll probably have to adjust the existing ones in the beginning, right?

For PotA you'd only skip the "optional tutorial", then the adventure expects the characters to be 3rd level. LMoP character are probably 4th level and 5th level, so you still might want to adjust a bit.
HotDQ needs some more significant adjustments to remain challenging.
OotA is much easier to adjust, but it really expects you to start with literary nothing. I guess it can work when the PCs are willing to throw away all their items and just keep their level. You could add all the lost magic items back as rewards, I guess. As in, all their items are taken and sold, but they are still out there somewhere.

2) How well do the other three modules go hand in hand with lost mines?

PotA works best with LMoP. The others expect completely new adventurers.

3) How flexible are they?

OotA is probably the most flexible one.

4) Any of the adventures especially hard for new players?

Hmm, OotA is probably hardest for new players.
HotDQ is only hard because of some "bugs" where D&D Next stats are still expected instead of D&D E5 stats, so it occasionally throws some almost unwinnable battles at the group (well, one anyway).

5) My players know nothing about the world (we play FR setting), so is there anything that needs specific PLAYER knowledge?

None really require much knowledge of the world. You learn all the important facts as part of the adventures. I guess OotA actually work best with "players not knowing anything about the world" though, because that fits to the PCs not knowing anything about the Abyss either.

In short, my personal recommendation is:
Keep characters - PotA
New characters - OotA

 

[CapnZapp]

Remember, when most people complain about "railroaded" adventures, they speak out as experienced role-playing gamers. (I'm in this group)

But what is a complaint for me, is a benefit to you.

A railroaded adventure is a good thing for an inexperienced DM and especially for new players!

So I wouldn't sweat it. Choose Princes.

PS. Even though I love Abyss, I would not recommend it to any inexperienced DM.

Once you and your players have played Princes (whether you finish it or not) I believe you and your friends will have a blast with Abyss. By that time, creating new characters and starting over at first level will feel much more natural, and everybody will be a D&D veteran!

 

[Nemio]

I'm more or less in the same situation as you.
New DM with a group that is nearing the end of LMoP.

The choice also depends a bit on the likes and dislikes of yourself and your players.

Fighting different Cults in different temples didn't appeal that much to me.
I prefer the Underdark with all the madness and Demon stuff going on.

I know it's for experienced DM's and reading it only confirmed that it will take an effort to make it work.
I'm still set on using that one to continue the adventure of my players though.
Chris Perkins from Wotc said that existing characters can be used.
There's a point in the OotA adventure where the group reaches the surface and that's after the lvl 5 mark.
Could even be lvl 7, don't have the book here.

 

[MerricB]

Actually, I'd start from the beginning of Out of the Abyss. Having higher level characters may make their escape easier, but they still have to traverse the Underdark. Should work fine.

Cheers!

 

[MerricB]

You know, I wrote an entire article on this topic:

What to play after finishing the D&D Starter Set

Cheers!

 

[The Grassy Gnoll]

I've moved from LMOP (I pronounce it "FAN-dell-ver" btw) to a conversion of an AD&D module...little tricky with some of the stats but so far working well (pretty deadly though!). If you have any older ed adventures you could incorporate them?

 

[SunGold]

A thought about OotA and newbie players (I haven't read the adventure at all since I'm playing in it, and we're very early in the adventure--so read this with that in mind)...

My two cents: for a bunch of newbies who just created their characters, took a long time doing so, and might be a little attached to them/want to keep using them, this adventure could be pretty crushing. Our group's DM half-jokingly told us in the beginning that we might want to go ahead and roll up 2 or 3 characters to begin with, since he anticipated "high PC turnover." Basically the first action I took got me a madness check. It's rough stuff. (Very fun, very interesting, but rough.)

If you think your players can handle that sort of thing without it putting them off D&D, then yeah, go for it. Otherwise, maybe save it for when they're ready for it. Definitely worth playing at some point.

 

[Motorskills]

I would have them be in a mine collapse at the end of Phandelver. When they recover they are prisoners of the Drow, and the route to the surface is irrevocably blocked.

Abyss is TOUGH for a newbie DM.

But the internet allows you to be thoroughly prepared, you will be fine, and you will have a blast running it.

So start now, slowly familiarize yourself with the first five chapters.

Read every OOTA thread you can. Understand the lessons the others are learning the hard way.

Prep everything onto little cards, both for yourself and for your players.

 

[AtomicPope]

Owning all three and playing in two of the three, I would say go for Princes of the Apocalypse (PotA). Here's why:

1) Meant to be a follow up: PotA is meant to be your 2nd adventure and carry the group through to a full campaign. It's assumed you start the adventure as an experienced group. This requires no prep work on your part. The other adventures assume the opposite - everyone's a noob. If you start off playing Horde of the Dragon Queen (HotDQ) at 4th Level you'll steamroll through the initial plot that is supposed to hook the players in. If you start Out of the Abyss (OotA) at higher level you'll break out of slavery rather easily, fraying the connection to the plot hook.
2) Sandbox or Not: Yes there's a lot of room to wiggle but you don't have to. There are dungeon crawls in PotA but it's DnD. Anything else would be false advertisement. Hordes is one big railroad. I've played it and from the get go the players are being put in situation after situation without any moment to back out or say "no." Out of the Abyss is even more railroad *SPOILER* The players start off as slaves, along with a great many NPCs. Those NPCs lead you through the Underdark where you try to escape. The DM's job is to railroad the players into the plot, almost like Gilligan's Island, where they're constantly delayed from returning home until the campaign is finished. With OotA you MUST sandbox your players with "random" encounters otherwise they will not have enough experience to advance to the next level. The sandbox of PotA is less concerned with building encounters for exp and more for retooling the module to fit your campaign.
3) Well conceived in crunch and fluff: My biggest gripe with both OotA and HotDQ is the DM is REQUIRED to hold monsters back and play them as plot devices. *SPOILER* in both campaign modules the players start off at 1st level and face CR8+ monsters. Just to illustrate how bad OotA really is... the slave master is a Drow Priestess who has the player's gear (weapons, armor, etc). It actually recommends she cast Insect Plague. That spell does 4D10 piercing damage in a Fireball sized AOE that sticks around for 1min. That could easily TPK a 2nd or 3rd level group in a single round. The average damage on a failed save is 22 hit points. HotDQ doesn't impress me at all, but OotA actually has good roleplaying opportunities, especially for inexperienced players.